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Literal interpretation of TRP

fhqwhgads_

November 5, 2013
2 upvotes
/r/PurplePillDebate

Abc recently posted this comment:

I guess it just goes to show how differently each person there interprets TRP.

Red pill school replied this comment:

I think for there to be a fair and honest debate here, people should drop the pedantic tone, like the whole "women aren't really children" line and "feminism isn't a sexual strategy according to the dictionary..." I think it's disingenuous to make these arguments, because they misrepresent exactly what we're getting at. Obviously we don't think women are literally children, and feminists wouldn't say they're doing this for sex. The point is realizing the context of our conversation- that we're looking at things from a sexual strategy standpoint and interpreting what effect they have on this. There are some good arguments to be made one way or another- and none of them are literal interpretations of our views.

Red pill school seems to think that TRP is taken too literally. This leads to many questions.

  • Is TRP really meant to be taken as an analogy rather than literally (similarly to how people interpret the Bible)? Or is this just the view of red pill school?

  • If so: Why can't TRP be taken literally? How does everyone in TRP know that it isn't meant to be taken literally? What is the purpose of holding a view that isn't meant to be taken literally?

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Post Information
Title Literal interpretation of TRP
Author

fhqwhgads_

Upvotes 2
Comments 48
Date November 5, 2013 3:36 PM UTC
(12 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1pyd62/literal_interpretation_of_trp/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/literal-interpretation-of-trp.286654
https://theredarchive.com/post/286654
Red Pill terms in post
feminismfeministthe red pill
Top posts by fhqwhgads_

Redpillers: If I'm happy and my boyfriend is happy, then why do you care?

13 upvotes
November 18, 2013
/r/PurplePillDebate

Sleeping around fucks women up. They can't pair-bond as easily. They lose the piece of themselves that can effectively love a man.

13 upvotes
November 11, 2013
/r/PurplePillDebate

Men are superior

13 upvotes
October 23, 2013
/r/PurplePillDebate

Why does TRP look down on promiscuous women?

11 upvotes
November 15, 2013
/r/PurplePillDebate

Study shows that men and women aren't that different. "Men and women are from Earth".

10 upvotes
October 1, 2013
/r/PurplePillDebate

"women lack character, honor, integrity, loyalty and fidelity in general"

10 upvotes
November 3, 2013
/r/PurplePillDebate

Stay-at-home dads

9 upvotes
September 25, 2013
/r/PurplePillDebate

Nothing that comes out of a woman's mouth is important.

9 upvotes
September 15, 2013
/r/PurplePillDebate

Comments

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points7 points 12 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

From the first time I read any TRP subs, it never occured to me to read anything there literally. I always figured they were getting at general principles or establishing a mode reasoning. I guess you could take it literally and only consider anything that could be sexist as sexist, but if someone did that, wouldn't they be just as extreme with any other material they find?

[–]CFRProflcopter( ͠° ͟ʖ ͡°)1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

establishing a mode reasoning.

What does this mean?

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 12 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

sorry, mode of reasoning.

[–]CFRProflcopter( ͠° ͟ʖ ͡°)1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

I got that. What do you mean by "mode of reasoning?"

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Ok. Generally it means a method to analyzing that can applied in multiple situations with the aim of explaining or predicting something.

[–]CFRProflcopter( ͠° ͟ʖ ͡°)-1 points0 points1 point 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

And how does TRP do that?

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

Well, just by being, it does that. The basic premise is that what we think we know about sex, relationships, opposite sex attraction, and similar topics is wrong. If that is even a little true, we should discuss it. If it's not true, why is not true. That premise requires, I think, a response, whether you agree or not.

[–]nicethingyoucanthaveRed Pill Male3 points4 points5 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Is TRP really meant to be taken as an analogy rather than literally (similarly to how people interpret the Bible)? Or is this just the view of red pill school?

It it literally an analogy.

It's an analogy to the Matrix. If you take it literally, then you're looking for an actual red pill and expecting to be flushed down a toilet and rescued by a hovercraft full of hackers.

...of course, the movie itself is an allegory of (depending on which interpretation you like) how social systems imprison people's minds. So maybe "taking it literally" means accepting the allegory as an accurate representation of the world - specifically, interpreting the matrix as being about how feminism, or more accurately "patriarchy theory" is a lie designed to secure political power for a few and imprison others.

Regardless, TRP is, for me, about the idea that men and women are fundamentally different. That is, believe it or not, a radical idea in some circles. It's an offensive idea in some circles. It's an idea that a certain kind of feminism seeks to suppress.

That, you can take literally.

The specific things that TRPers come up with flow from that premise. There is no requirement from me or from anyone else that you accept any particular one of those things. Indeed, I often see things on the TRP sub that are just laughably wrong. I can link you to plenty of examples of me politely disagreeing there. I will never be banned for such disagreement. Nobody demands that I subscribe to a specific dogma in order to participate.

I hope that is a satisfactory answer.

[–]redpillschoolRed Pill2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (96 children) | Copy Link

The answer to all of your questions is answered on our sub very simply: You lurk. Get a feel for the material before reacting. Undoubtedly after seeing a few discussions on each topic, you get better context for an idea.

The entire sub is just attempting to be a melting pot where we bring together experiences we've shared or have in common and analyze if there are trends or not.

You get what you put in.

[–]fhqwhgads_ 7 points7 points7 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I'm sure that almost everyone who posts here has read hours and hours of material from TRP, and yet many of us have come away with what you seem to think is a wrong interpretation. So this is obviously not the correct solution.

[–]redpillschoolRed Pill0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

It takes a willful desire not to understand it by taking exception to everything you can misinterpret.

[–]soulcakeduck7 points8 points9 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I remember you saying this about the "women are teenagers" article (as you did in the OP link again). Supposedly TRP does not think that is literal, and if we wanted to understand TRP's interpretation we should lurk.

Well, I've done that. And in fact, another user went over shortly after you said that and asked about the article.

Plenty of redpillers seem to interpret it literally. I think it takes a willful misinterpretation to look at dozens of different redpillers all giving the same interpretation to a piece of redpill orthodoxy and claim that the real redpill orthodoxy is different, is some secret hidden elsewhere if only we'd look.

Just to follow through on this single example, here is the original discussion of that article in TRP. I just re-read all the top level comments. All of them agree seemingly agree that women are literally unequal in development. One is discussing whether this is the result of nature or nurture. But I don't see anyone saying this is not-literal.

[–]angatar_3 points4 points5 points 12 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

I remember you making a thread saying that we all misunderstood The Red Pill, Red Pillers, and the message, but then refused to elaborate on that. Round 2?

[–]redpillschoolRed Pill1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

I refuse to write you a book. When asked point blank about particulars, I do find most people here refuse to believe what I say, and instead prefer to ascribe their own preconceived notions to me.

For instance, when I explain my position on rape, people disagree and tell me that I must be a rapist because.

Wonder why I don't chomp at the bit to explain the entirety of the red pill in great detail? I've already spent a lot of time attempting to do so on the red pill. It's not a single theory.

[–]angatar_2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

For instance, when I explain my position on rape, people disagree and tell me that I must be a rapist because.

You can explain that you're George Washington, but people disagree and tell you that you must not be George Washington because...

Wonder why I don't chomp at the bit to explain the entirety of the red pill in great detail? I've already spent a lot of time attempting to do so on the red pill. It's not a single theory.

Then why do you even bother coming here? If it was adequately explained on The Red Pill it'd be easily translated over here. Especially when it is quoted verbatim.

But then some things are limited, others exaggerated, some beliefs stated, others ignored...

It's not a single theory.

...Your defense is that it's so nebulous we can't even begin to attack it.

[–]redpillschoolRed Pill2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

When your position is that I like potatoes, I am not only the authority but the only authority on the matter.

Then why do you even bother coming here?

Certainly not for your pleasantness.

...Your defense is that it's so nebulous we can't even begin to attack it.

Your assertions are the nebulous "misogyny."

[–]angatar_4 points5 points6 points 12 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

When your position is that I like potatoes, I am not only the authority but the only authority on the matter.

Are you sure you want to maintain that explicit statements of desire are the most truthful?

Certainly not for your pleasantness.

You don't even recognize us, so I'm not surprised. But if you're not going to come here to explain The Red Pill, you shouldn't even bother. You're not contributing anything if you're just heckling.

Your assertions are the nebulous "misogyny."

It's not nebulous at all; it's the hatred of women. It can come in many forms and they are not mutually exclusive. There's a fantastic thread on this sub for explanations that I encourage you to look at (and take note that that's what explanations look like).

[–]redpillschoolRed Pill3 points4 points5 points 12 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

If I say that women are stupider than men, you would call it misogyny. What if I found a even a 1 point difference in average intelligence via study? I think it would be fair.

We may not have a fully formed set of theories but instead a working set of theories. You call it misogyny because it's critical of women, and in your mind- since some of this hasn't been proven- then it must be misogyny just to talk about it unless it becomes proven. How would one discover new ideas if we were to ban any discussion of them until they're proven?!

Misogyny requires one thing: the subjective idea that we literally hate women. That is something that you can't prove, and using your logic makes you misandrist to boot! I like women, and I surmise a lot of men who spend this much time trying to become attractive to women also like women.

You can say that in our hearts we're the blackest of evils, but that's just not something you can really objectively say. So how could anybody objectively defend against it. It's a shaming tactic and nothing more.

[–]angatar_3 points4 points5 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

If I say that women are stupider than men, you would call it misogyny. What if I found a even a 1 point difference in average intelligence via study? I think it would be fair.

It depends on your evidence. If it's something like an IQ test or modern standardized testing, I'd say that you haven't proven anything regarding intelligence. And I don't believe 1 point is significant, mathematically or practically, and doesn't deserve labelled 50% as "stupider".

We may not have a fully formed set of theories but instead a working set of theories.

I don't see evidence that it works. I'm not taking your word for it.

You call it misogyny because it's critical of women, and in your mind- since some of this hasn't been proven- then it must be misogyny just to talk about it unless it becomes proven.

I call your theories misogynistic because that's what they are. Women are claimed to be categorically inferior to men in everything except physical appearance (for a very limited time). There's no evidence or rational reason why that'd be true.

How would one discover new ideas if we were to ban any discussion of them until they're proven?!

You don't discover things through rationality alone. Do you have any evidence that your theories are true?

Misogyny requires one thing: the subjective idea that we literally hate women.

This is word salad. And Red Pillers have literally claimed to hate women. Did you mean figuratively, or did you not read that?

That is something that you can't prove, and using your logic makes you misandrist to boot!

There's significant evidence against you. And I'd like you to explain how I'm misandrist.

So how could anybody objectively defend against it.

By bringing evidence to the contrary.

It's a shaming tactic and nothing more.

If you're ashamed you can justify your beliefs or change them.

[–]angatar_7 points8 points9 points 12 years ago (78 children) | Copy Link

a melting pot where we bring together experiences we've shared or have in common and analyze if there are trends or not.

Except you're selectively removing things and people that contradict The Red Pill. If you only look at things that support The Red Pill, no matter how much contradictory evidence there really is, of course you're going to find the support for The Red Pill.

[–]redpillschoolRed Pill1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (77 children) | Copy Link

I'm removing the people who say "but that's misogyny" not people who say "my experience is this... I wonder why it differs." I think most people here are completely unaware at how few posts we actually remove.

[–]angatar_6 points7 points8 points 12 years ago (76 children) | Copy Link

Is misogyny running rampant in your sub not a trend?

And pointing out that it's a circlejerk is valid criticism. Complaints about the quality of the sub (specifically Endorsed Contributors and sidebar material) is valid criticism. All your rules are designed to weed out "trolls", but trolls simply seem to be critics of The Red Pill.

[–]alphabetmodamused modstery1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

I don't know, I've been critical of another poster there that was upvoted a few times recently, and it's been well received. If people come in there with the same old tired "I have some questions" and then start baiting people with leading questions and calling people names, those are the ones I see getting removed.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

I was also critical of another poster on TRP and upvoted for it. I followed the rules, read the sidebar, and lurked. And yet I was still banned(though my comments weren't removed), I presume because I post on TBP. I don't know for sure though, because the mods never responded when I asked why I was banned. So I guess you can dissent as long as you're RP.

[–]alphabetmodamused modstery0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Hmm if the thread you posted in was posted in TBP maybe that's why?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Yeah, it was, twice. But I found the thread on my own and I didn't put it on TBP myself. I understand brigading can be problematic, but it's hard to find a thread I feel like commenting on that isn't posted on TBP. I know the mods are cautious about trolls because they get a lot, but I made a real effort to follow the rules of the sub and I wish I would have gotten a chance to defend myself. Oh well, I'm happy posting here and getting my questions answered.

[–]alphabetmodamused modstery0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, I guess it's a catch 22. Pretty much every post in TRP has a TBP parody so any BPer that posts in TRP and vice versa can be seen as brigading I guess.

[–]redpillschoolRed Pill2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (70 children) | Copy Link

Is misogyny running rampant in your sub not a trend?

I think these men rather like women.

[–]angatar_6 points7 points8 points 12 years ago (40 children) | Copy Link

I don't think so. The merits of a woman is limited to her body- that's misogyny if I've ever seen it.

Of course, the upvoted comments that literally say "I hate women" mean nothing.

[–]redpillschoolRed Pill2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (39 children) | Copy Link

merits of a woman is limited to her body- that's misogyny

And there's your willful misinterpretation.

The value of women in a sexual market is primarily her looks (and appearing young). (the makeup industry is primarily focused on women for a reason).

[–]angatar_2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (38 children) | Copy Link

You shouldn't accuse me of willful misinterpretation after I've asked you to explain yourself. It's also against the rules.

Users on The Red Pill often claim that women are mentally, physically, and emotionally inferior to men. As I said before, there are even upvoted comments that outright say "I hate women"- who is upvoting that, other than the people who hate women?

You yourself have said that women shouldn't vote. How is that not misogynistic?

You've also said that if you could allow discussion of violence and racism, you would allow it. Do you think any new valid viewpoints would be unearthed? What value do such subjects bring in (as you claim) a purely sexual strategy board? How would violence improve me as a man? How does racism improve me as a man?

[–]alphabetmodamused modstery1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (24 children) | Copy Link

Since this thread is getting derailed by the "voting" thing. Can you provide where RPS said women shouldn't vote?

[–]angatar_2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (23 children) | Copy Link

http://i.imgur.com/5lB4g4l.jpg

There are no responsibilities given to men in order to vote. I've given him the opportunity to amend this statement, or recant, but he's ignored me thus far. I'm hoping I'll get an answer sometime soon.

[–]redpillschoolRed Pill-1 points0 points1 point 12 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

You yourself have said that women shouldn't vote.

This fucking thing again. Really? I mean really? You really should just go back to the rape argument. It was at least mildly entertaining.

Hey angatar, I heard you like killing and eating babies, care to address it?

[–]angatar_4 points5 points6 points 12 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

Have I changed your mind? I'll drop it when we finish. Most of our conversations end with you disappearing.

And you forget who I am when we stop conversing, remember? How do you know it was really me?

[–]fhqwhgads_ 5 points5 points5 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I won't speak for other men here, but I hate what women actually are. I hate everything about how women think and operate.

[–]alphabetmodamused modstery2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (26 children) | Copy Link

That dude is an angry fucker. Still, one reply out of 200 that answered the question "Do you hate women?" with a yes. So... misogyny running rampant? No. In fact, every other person there that addressed that question said they did not hate women, or that they loved them.

[–]fhqwhgads_ 3 points3 points3 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

42 people upvoted this comment, and it's currently at +13. Do you think it's acceptable for a group to encourage this sentiment?

[–]alphabetmodamused modstery2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link

Upvotes != agreement. I still don't think he should have been upvoted, but if you cherry pick the angriest comment in the thread, just as in this case, you almost always see some replies like this:

As you can see, he has a fair amount of downvotes in his post too. The people who downvoted him are probably thinking something like:

This guy needs to control himself. If a man doesn't have a grip on their emotions then they don't have a grip on the situation. He just blew the fuck up and said "fuck you" to someone who is trying to help him by understanding him. Fuck him. He needs to get a grip on the situation,

This comment has 6+ 1-.

Yeah the comment you linked is unnecessarily abrasive, and the guy is a misogynist. There's no refuting that. He literally hates women. But he is in no way representative of the overwhelming majority of people there.

[–]fhqwhgads_ 5 points5 points5 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

What about this guy who got 61 upvotes? (edited to include entire comment)

I have been divorced a month now, and I timed buying some land for about a month after it would be final so I could close on it today and her name is nowhere on it. Its mine. No trollop nor cheating whore will be able to wrest it from me by taking off to fuck some other guy.

I will never again marry, and most likely never tell a woman I am not blood related to that I love her. This is my life, and I am living it how I see fit. I do what I want, when I want to do it, and no female has any say in how I go about it. Its not as if my ex wives had any say what I did anyway, but now I dont have to listen to them bitch that I am spending more money on cars than I am on them.

Fuck yes I am free, and you're damn right I dont need some self warming fleshlight sapping up my hard earned resources.

That might sound like I hate women, I dont. I love and adore them, but damn you just cant trust them.

[–]redpillschoolRed Pill0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

Plug your ears and close your eyes, maybe this guy will just disappear.

I think it's a good thing to embrace him and make sure he knows his feelings are valid, and help him understand things better, and turn that anger into something more constructive.

We embrace these guys because the politically correct culture we live in has abandoned and disenfranchised these people. And whether or not you like it, these guys do feel burned by women and will feel it. It's best to have a safe place to learn than to continue to disenfranchise them.

[–]angatar_4 points5 points6 points 12 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

I think it's a good thing to embrace him and make sure he knows his feelings are valid

His hatred is valid? Or did you mean to write another word?

[–]redpillschoolRed Pill0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

This literally changes nothing. His feeilngs are valid. I even upvoted him for sharing. Does the upvote button have a hidden contract where I have to start hating women too?

[–]CFRProflcopter( ͠° ͟ʖ ͡°)2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

The entire sub is just attempting to be a melting pot where we bring together experiences we've shared or have in common and analyze if there are trends or not.

I don't know. The one time I tried to post there I was labeled a concern troll. All I did was respectfully ask for support for red pill theory since I didn't see anything beyond unconvincing blog posts in the side bare.

For me, I really don't care about "misogyny." Maybe it's because I'm a man and I can't quite relate. What I care about is when people hold opinions that are unjustified. I see a lot of informal fallacies and faulty reasoning, and I just want people to critically think about stuff before they come to all these conclusions.

[–]redpillschoolRed Pill4 points5 points6 points 12 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Well just showing up one day and asking everybody to condense theory for you is also trolling. Lurk.

[–]CFRProflcopter( ͠° ͟ʖ ͡°)3 points4 points5 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I did, for weeks. I didn't see any convincing arguments. I didn't see any convincing science. I couldn't see how people were getting from A to B. So I asked.

[–]alfalfaman2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Well just showing up one day and asking everybody to condense theory for you is also trolling. Lurk.

Hang on, What? Imagine I go onto a physics sub and ask someone to condense the laws of thermodynamics for me, It can be done in three neat sentences which can then be expanded on. If I need more proof they can offer experiments and many many studies to back their claims. Now imagine we applied your logic and simply called them out as "trolls". The fact is that if your " theory " has little framework and evidence and that it cant be condensed to even a basic theory. Since this is the case it is only a hypothesis and a bad one at that.

[–]redpillschoolRed Pill1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Any mod worth his weight knows what JAQ-ing off is. You guys are great at it, it disrupts conversation, and we remove it. If you don't like that, you could find something else to do with your time.

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