Needing vs. Wanting - Advice

Hello all,

I’m (34F in a LTR with 42M) seeking some advice as to how I can go about making my SO feel more needed. I encountered the same issue with my ex husband (was married for 10 yrs), but I’m struggling with whether it’s a healthy thing or whether it’s an insecurity issue on their part... or both? I’d like to hear what any of you do/have done to make your partners feel more needed.

As a backstory, my marriage ended up failing for a variety of reasons (addiction on his part etc), but I noticed a change when I became more emotionally stable. When I met my ex at age 20 I’d just experienced a traumatic breakup with my first love and could be described as a “hot mess.” Enter ex husband who loved feeling like the knight in shining armor. These days I would smack myself for getting immediately into another relationship, but these are lessons learned. In any case, as I processed the previous breakup and felt more emotionally myself, he began to feel less needed. Ultimately he started seeking out other women he could use his savior complex on, but when he’d mention it I really didn’t know how to make him feel emotionally needed. I expressed that I DID need and want him, but I couldn’t force myself to be in a hot mess phase again. I had not yet discovered RPW/RP to be able to incorporate its methods into the marriage.

Fast forward about 2 years and last night my SO brought up a similar sentiment to me, but he couldn’t articulate how I could make him feel more needed. He also has a bit of a savior complex and felt most needed when we first started dating back in October. At the time I was already living in my own purchased condo, had done renovations on my own/with friends, and was comfortable supporting myself. However, I was going through some emotional bumps related to residual divorce/post breakup crap and going to therapy etc.

In any case, over the last 6.5 months I’ve continued to work on myself, he’s been working on his own insecurity/abandonment issues, and we’ve grown together as a couple. I’m still going to therapy. I’ve gotten better at accepting his lavish gifts and attention with grace (I struggled previously feeling like I’d come across as a mooch), express appreciation multiple times a day for his love/actions/opportunities to travel with him or do awesome activities I wouldn’t ordinarily do due to financial considerations, we have sex generally at least once a day, I’m helping to raise his wonderful 9 yr old daughter, etc. I very much WANT him in my life...

But where’s the line between WANTING and NEEDING? I’m a very practical woman and although I’m extremely affectionate, I feel that NEEDING someone to survive is leaning toward an unhealthy/codependent direction that I would prefer to avoid. I expressed some frustration to him during our discussion last night because I feel like men (or maybe it’s just the ones I’ve encountered) don’t appreciate the value of having an emotionally stable woman who has herself mostly together. I suspect it’s because they fear I’ll find someone better. I have conveyed that he’s the best partner I’ve had, that I love how he treats me and wants to plan our futures together, have reiterated how much I enjoy our sex life, and that I would be a fool to take him for granted and seek anyone else. I have absolutely no desire to do so, but I don’t think he totally believes me because he doesn’t feel as “needed” anymore. For the record, he is my go to for various problems, sharing my day, etc so I’m not excluding him emotionally from anything.

Has anyone encountered this as well? What worked or didn’t work for you? I would appreciate whatever feedback you can provide.

[–]ManguZa1 Star8 points9 points10 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Spazzy19[S] 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I feel that I do convey that he’s an essential part of my life frequently, but he hasn’t been able to really articulate where he feels something is off. He mentioned that he feels that I am the center of his universe, but questions whether I have ever felt the same way since I “do my own things.” By “doing my own things” I go to work and a few evenings a week I participate in martial arts to stay in shape and pursue something I enjoy. Otherwise I tend to see him sometimes before class and then afterward to spend time with him and his daughter. We spend every evening together. I focus my attention on being present with them and tend to talk to my friends and family while at work or commuting so I can dedicate my time to them. Our therapist has even indicated that it’s not healthy to dedicate yourself 100% to someone because you still need time to dedicate to yourself or friends/family. She recommends more like 80/20. I am 100% dedicated to him and the relationship, but I can’t dedicate 100% of myself if that makes sense.

I think the rub is honestly our differences in personality types. I’m more extroverted and thrive on connection with others and he is more introverted and only wants to dedicate his time and energy to me. He still sees friends or partakes in his interests, but I’m his main confidant. He is my main one as well, but I also have close friendships with whom I can confide in with both women and two men (one of whom is an ex bf but we were close before we experimented with dating. Major incompatibilities, we’ve both moved on, see each other at martial arts sometimes and feel in a place again that we can interact normally). He seems to only have a problem with other males, so I’ve limited contact until he is more comfortable. He tends to view close interaction with my male friends as energy taken away from him even though my interactions occur when we’re not together and the topics are not inappropriate. It’s a work in progress.

[–]WhatIsThisAccountFor3 Star1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

[–]Spazzy19[S] 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

I commented on another poster that might provide more insight, but i think it started back in Feb when I expressed a desire to return to my martial arts classes and now take 1-1.5 hrs a couple days per week to exercise and pursue my goals/happiness. He’s not overly comfortable with the thought of other men touching me (even my male massage therapists for deep tissue make him feel icky) and it’s further complicated by the fact my ex husband (who I don’t interact with and rarely run into these days) and ex bf (broke up a year ago and he’s dating someone else from our class) also attend.

But even the time away initially bothered him because he would prefer to do everything together as a unit. Cultural differences may also play into this (he’s Chinese but raised in the US) but his mom is very supportive of the fact I exercise and bugs him to return to the gym and stay in shape too. Basically... “follow your girlfriend’s example!”

The first couple months we dated, I skipped classes for a variety of reasons which included wanting to spend more time with him. Now it seems I’m “pulling away” I guess despite the fact I’m with him outside of work and my MMA classes.

[–]UnforeseenPurpose3 points4 points5 points 8 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[–]Spazzy19[S] -1 points0 points1 point 8 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

He knows my ex husband from the days he dated my ex SIL (they broke up 4 yrs ago) and I don’t think has any doubts about any desire to return to that marriage based on the circumstances of the divorce. They’re friendly enough with each other and we all attend the same church. My ex husband has also been in a LTR since August last year.

He’s willing to meet ex bf/friend in time. That guy will be in a different class come Sept when he gets his black belt. I won’t get mine until next year and can’t just switch places because I’ve paid a year in advance and would have to start over and essentially waste 2 years of progress.

My SO doesn’t have to do MMA with me. He can just go to the gym to work out or do something else to exercise. I’m fine not doing EVERYTHING together, but also don’t mind if he decides he wants to join because we’ll be able to encourage each other to practice and progress.

I have the ability to compartmentalize my previous relationships and maintain friendships. It throws him for a loop although he was fine rekindling his friendship with my ex-SIL (which I didn’t have an issue with and was initially happy about). She just couldn’t deal with us dating and stepped back to address her own issues.

[–]DelicateDevelopment2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

I am not sure if I am right but when I was reading this, I was wondering if this formulation might not capture part of the reason why he doesn't feel needed.

There is a subtle line between giving the other person the freedom to do whatever he wants to do and seemingly not caring. Sometimes this line is just crossed by the way things are expressed.

The issue might not lie in what precisely you are doing for him, but in the way you communicate yourself to him. Obviously you invest a lot into the relationship and him. But by investing so much yourself it can also seem like you are "taking over", you are "running the relationship" and it might seem that he doesn't have to "invest" anymore himself and therefore it might seem as if you don't need him anymore. You even take care of his daughter. So you run your own life, take care of his daughter and you run the relationship while at the same time you show an "if you want you can, if you don't I don't mind"-attitude. You mean well, you want to show how invested and engaged you are, you want to show how much you want him, however wanting to show that too much can have exactly the opposite result. It can make him feel incompetent and therefore not needed. If this goes together with the generous intent of "you are free to do as you please" it can in combination seem as if you didn't care at all.

The problem is that these things cannot be argued or transported logically. So even when you explain what you do for him and the relationship, it seems logically that you invest and therefor he is important. However this is logic, not feeling.

You do miss him, if you don't see him, do you? That is the need he needs. Let him know that he is missing, when you don't spend time together. So you have to find actions and words that show that you miss him/something when you are separated. It can be a happy smile lightening up on you when you say hello, "so cool to see you". It can also mean displaying disappointment when he cancels a plan. Too much freedom can seem like not caring at all.

When you state that you are independent again and that you are stable again and in fact do not need him anymore then this can easily be misunderstood as I do not long for you anymore. The opposite to that in the RP community is the dread games that they play in order to make the woman aware that she might loose him if she doesn't invest enough. Dread games play with the fear of loss and many men seem to be afraid that as soon as women take them for granted, as soon as they do not have this intense need of wanting to see them as in the beginning of a romance, the woman might be disinterested or not emotionally invested anymore.

Your above statement seems to outline a subtle trap very well. this is why I picked it and it is by no means meant to be criticizing. The generosity that you seem to show with respect to "he doesn't have to do MMA with you" but "you also don't mind if" can essentially seem like you do not care at all whether he joins or not. You have reached your state of independence and now you don't "need" him to be around you anymore. It can be that you want to give him the freedom to do what he feels comfortable with, but at the same time, if you give him too much freedom it might seem as if you didn't care whether he is around or not.

It might be that you confuse what it means to not need somebody. Not needing somebody in order to be functioning in everyday's life is healthy. Not needing somebody to the extend of not even noticing when he is there or not has more to do with not caring and not so much with inner strength and independence.

So instead of letting the decision about your MMA course to him you should make up your mind of whether you want him to do this course with you. I personally wouldn't advice it, because you seem to have a more advanced level than he has and therefore seeing you performing much better than him, might make him feel even more insecure.

But you should find something that you want to do with him and show determination about particularly that wanting. Make it clear that you want to spend time with him. Don't discuss it on a logical rational base. Make him feel wanted by insisting on doing something together. Make him feel wanted by seeking closeness more often. Make him feel needed by asking him for advice about something. Make him feel needed by finding an activity that you can do together and say something like "hey, I want to do this and without you it doesn't feel the same, it is no fun without you". Show him by actions, not words that you want to spend time with him, that you seek his presence, his advice, his words, physical closeness. Show disappointment when you loose shared time. Be a bit more annoying, when you want to spend time with him, while he wants to watch TV or game or similar. If you are not disappointed when he disengages, it might be that you are not really giving in. It might be that you have worked so well on your independence that you overdid it. Maybe because you are scared to be hurt again. If you are too much in your state of abundance - as in I don't need anybody - it might seem that emotionally you haven't really given in.

If you make it mostly "if you want to do something together, but we don't have to", then it can seem as if you wouldn't care as if it wouldn't make a difference whether he is there or not. Aka, you don't seem to need him.

This form to "needing" is entirely different from the "needing" in needing somebody in a dependent unhealthy way. Is your life more complete with him? Then this "more complete" is the need you should show him. "I need your presence to make my life even better. Without you it is ok, but with you it shines".

It is great that you have overcome your past issues and have developed into a whole person that is emotionally stable. But insisting on this independence too much can easily lead to the feeling in others that they are only a mere decoration to your life. This might be particularly important to the two of you because your relationship started in times when you really needed him and now after things have changed it might seem that he cannot do anything for you anymore. Most people want to feel "needed" in the way that they know it makes a difference whether they are there or not.

[–]Spazzy19[S] 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]WhatIsThisAccountFor3 Star0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

I just realized I accidentally commented with a different account, my mistake. That last one was still me.

He knows my ex husband from the days he dated my ex SIL (they broke up 4 yrs ago)

Wow. Ok so maybe I was wrong. I don’t really know how this relationship must have started, but you must live in a small town or something. Everyone in your romantic history seems to be intertwined.

To me it sounds like you’d prefer for him not to do this with you. Do you need the time separate from him?

I think the problem here is not that you’re taking an MMA class away from him or that there are men of your past in this class, I think the issue is a combination of you taking the class, there being men in your history, and you wanting some time separate from him. If one of these things weren’t true I don’t think he would be so opposed to it.

Since you already paid this is a difficult situation. Is this the only situation where he has the submitting problem with you?

[–]Spazzy19[S] 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Haha, yeah we joke that we like to keep it in the family. It’s not a small town (there are only two big cities in Nevada) but we reconnected unexpectedly and really hit it off. It unfortunately caused a rift with my ex-in laws who I viewed as more family than my own family, but I am not willing to sacrifice my happiness based on their opinions after the crap I went through in the marriage.

Perhaps you’re right with the combination. I absolutely love spending time with him, but I’m acutely aware of falling into a codependency trap because of patterns in my past. He’s suggested I quit my job and we work together in his business and traveling to conferences all over which I’m actually quite excited about, but I have stipulated that I wasn’t comfortable quitting my job unless we are married. I do think some separate things are good so as to have different things to talk about, etc.

My only concern about him attending MMA with me is that I don’t want it negatively impacting his mood which results in a funk. He’s working on it, but one time he ended up having to drop me off/pick me up and he saw me practicing jiu jitsu with someone after class. He mistakenly thought it was a guy, but it was in fact a woman. Either way, in this activity I will at times have to roll with men. It resulted in some passive aggressive behavior which I don’t deal with well. My main partner is now a woman anyway and he’s met her before.

As a side note, this is my first relationship I’ve ever had with a guy who struggles with jealousy, so I’m unfortunately learning as I go and trying to navigate cautiously so I can respect his comfort levels while still being myself.

[–]WhatIsThisAccountFor3 Star0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Spazzy19[S] 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]WhatIsThisAccountFor3 Star1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Title	Needing vs. Wanting - Advice
Author	Spazzy19
Upvotes	3
Comments	13
Date	April 26, 2018 5:49 PM UTC (8 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/RedPillWomen
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/RedPillWomen/comments/8f4n5j/needing_vs_wanting_advice/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/RedPillWomen/needing-vs-wanting-advice.67275 https://theredarchive.com/post/67275

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