What does it mean to be an MRA?

JohnAdamZiolkowski · 2012-12-04T18:05:58+00:00

I fight for very concrete goals:

gender equality in protection against genital mutilation
gender equality in protection against domestic violence
gender equality in protection against sexual assault
gender equality in conscription/draft/selective service

For me the last one means removal of such programs, not expanding it to force women into war as well.

jolly_mcfats · 2012-12-04T18:50:16+00:00

as the "true feminists" go on evading a clear definition.

This is easily dealt with by referring to the activities of specific feminist organizations. You don't have to reference radfemhub to find examples of advocating for superiority. So-called moderate feminist organizations such as the National Association of Women have strong lobbyists and use them to entrench disparity. In fact, if this weren't the case, I'd give credence to NAFALTs. Most of the criticism I have seen aimed at the MRM is directed at posts in /r/MR, as opposed to the National Organization of Men, or the National Coalition for Men; this is not the same as criticizing the National Organization of Women as being representative of feminism. The reason NAFALT doesn't work is that the influential feminists ARE like that. The same is not true of the MRM.

If the MRM ever develops influential organizations that have a reputation as a moderate, yet exert noticeable influence to enact legislation which puts women at a disadvantage, I will stop referring to myself as an MRA.

With regards to /r/MR I think that it is better to acknowledge that any movement is going to have the full spectrum of humanity represented in its; ranks- the good, the bad and the ugly, all in equal measure. A movement is better judged by its' collective actions than by the loud extremists. I wouldn't be as bothered by A Voice For Men's article on radfemhub if it were just a few angry women without influence in the movement. It's the prominence of the members of radfemhub arguing for gendercide that I found disturbing.

If you would like to propose forming a moderate organization for Mens Rights, with an actual platform that can be set through some formal process, I'm interested in hearing more- but I think /r/MR should continue in the tradition of inclusivity, with the acknowledgement that we're going to have to cry NAMRALT every now and then.

Methaxetamine · 2012-12-04T18:03:47+00:00

I remember there was a guy who was saying it is impossible to advocate nonviolence and it would be much easier to make it acceptable for both women and men to fight. What do you think of this stance?

Hach8 · 2012-12-04T20:21:09+00:00

I've been thinking a lot about this question.

I think first and foremost Men's Rights has to be about equal treatment under the law for men and women. That would include both presumptions made by courts, categorizations in statutes, and other regulatory effects that weigh heavier on one gender than the other. Specifically, it would include opposition to Title IX (in all its incarnations), Opposition to at least the text of VAWA, opposition to things like the Duluth model, etc.

Equal treatment would also mean equal funding and access to social and health programs to deal with the problems that generally plague men more often. Examples would be mental health support, and domestic violence support for male victims. I also include things like Legal Body Autonomy in this category as well. Father's rights also deal with the court systems extensively, and thus also belong in this category. Equal treatment under the law is the most important aspect of being an MRA.

Another Pillar, in my opinion, would be traditional and constitutional (at least in the US) protections for the accused. Innocent until proven guilty shouldn't just be lip service. This is doubly important in cases of Domestic Violence and Rape because the crimes are so universally reviled, and because the courts see the constitution as more "flexible" in such cases, giving additional protections to the victim rather at the expense of the accused.

The final aspect that I believe is important is the social biases that disadvantage men. This seems to be the most "iffy" one, but I don't mean like the "objectification" nonsense that feminists talk about with women. Rather, the active discrimination in treating men as second class citicizens by assuming they are criminals. Policies that assume the "base" point of maleness is that of pedophile / rapist are things that should be opposed.

Other things, like society's depiction of men as inept, or stupid, or bad parents are decent points of talk, but I don't think they are critical to the MRM. These things are too far away from what should be fairly concrete goals for MRAs.

double-happiness · 2012-12-04T21:22:59+00:00

I can't speak for anyone else, but for me:

Rejection of 'masculinity' as a valid or meaningful construct
Refusal to abide others' judgements based solely on a person being male
Re-invention of the male role
Rediscovery of the positive aspects of being male
Renewal, growth, care, and mutual understanding for men
Reinforcement of the importance of men as carers, partners and fathers
Removal of barriers to men's rights, interests, and free expression
Repudiation of the idea of men as natural predators
Respect for women as equals who are enitled to the same rights, agency, and responsibilities

[The 're-' thing is just something I picked up at Uni. - it's a handy way to table things you're thinking about. I learned that when a woman in my sociology group did a presentation about the history of homosexuality and broke it down into 'how it was perceived, how it was practised and how it was persecuted']

bluefootedpig · 2012-12-04T23:13:57+00:00

to myself, a MRA goal is this:

To address issues of which men are found to be treated unfairly, be it by law, society, or persons.

That is basically it. We don't want to repeal women's right to vote. In fact, we don't really concern ourselves with feminism unless it directly affects our efforts (such as a protest at a MRA speaking event).

Anything that talks about men apologizing for rape are false, but we do want to know all the details. We call this good investigation, as to not cast blame onto someone unless that person is found guilty.

Anything that talks about men wanting women to fill a role is false, we are okay with women being treated equal. The problem arises when help is seen as white knighting or somehow about sex, when in reality it is being a good human.

Basically as I stated, MRAs are looking to address problems specific to men, in balances. We do not seek to increase power, to subvert women, or somehow subjugate them to our will.

There is no patriarchy that we belong to. No monthly meetings where we talk about ways to keep women down.

Now the disclaimer: there are men who are sexist, much as there are women who are sexist. Just as there are people who want white power, there are people for black power. Each of these people will find groups similar, but that doesn't speak for the entire group. When someone says, "make me a sandwhich" on reddit, that doesn't mean they must be a MRA.

Demonspawn · 2012-12-04T17:38:57+00:00

is an almost categorical opposition to violence

I have to fully disagree.

Violence is just another answer in the solution set, to be evaluated given it's pros and cons compared to other potential solutions.

And, I honestly believe there will be a point in the advancement of the MRM where revolution, or the threat thereof, will be necessary to accomplish the goals desired.

rightsbot · 2012-12-04T17:14:18+00:00

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Title	What does it mean to be an MRA?
Author	littleelf
Upvotes	16
Comments	15
Date	December 4, 2012 5:13 PM UTC (13 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/149pap/what_does_it_mean_to_be_an_mra/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/what-does-it-mean-to-be-an-mra.1007589 https://theredarchive.com/post/1007589

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