False rape accusations are the aspect of feminism I am against the strongest-here is why.

PierceHarlan · 2012-08-02T14:16:07+00:00

The reluctance to prosecute false accusers is a grave social disorder. First and foremost, it does a terrible injustice to the victims of that crime. Beyond that, it undermines confidence in the way rape trials are handled. When juries see that innocent men are being subjected to the criminal system without consequence to false accusers, they are reluctant to convict anyone of rape, even persons who should be convicted.

Lisa Longstaff of the UK's Women Against Rape bemoaned the fact that some women are prosecuted for making false rape claims. "Such prosecutions must be stopped," she declared. "It is a galling diversion for women to be jailed when the vast majority of rapists are not – 90% of rapes are never reported and only 6.7% of those that are reach conviction on a full charge of rape. The prosecution of women and the disproportionate media coverage they get are putting rape victims off reporting and leaving all of us more vulnerable to attack. Is that what they want?" Source: http://www.guardian.co.uk/law/2011/aug/12/layla-jailed-after-reporting-sexual-assault

Longstaff once said this: "Every prosecution [of false rape claims] puts women who have been raped off reporting it." Another time, she called such efforts "a concerted witchhunt."

Longstaff's is not the advocacy of a serious social reformer; it is the advocacy of ugly gender get-evenism that has no place in the public discourse about a critical issue. The notion that society can only combat one form of criminality, namely rape, by ignoring other serious criminality, namely false rape reporting, or that society can only wage the "war on rape" by elevating the victimization of one group of our citizens, our daughters, over that of another, our sons, is as puerile as it is patently unjust.

Holding criminals accountable for their crimes is not a zero sum game, and Longstaff's suggestion paints her as an extremist whose pronouncements are not to be taken seriously.

If some women are being unfairly prosecuted for false reporting, such unfairness is as deserving of society's attention as is the unfairness in wrongly prosecuting persons for rape. In fact, women are rarely prosecuted for false reporting, and typically, charges are lodged only where the evidence is clear and manifest. Instances of unjustly charging women for false reporting are extremely rare and receive inordinate media attention. The problem isn't that too many false accusers are being prosecuted but not enough.

In addition, the suggestion that rape victims are put off from reporting because a few women are prosecuted for making false rape claims is posited without any supporting evidence, and is absurd on its face.

Ironically, claims that women don't receive justice when they report their rapes may be contributing to whatever underreporting exists. Two years ago, the Stern Review in the UK said that claims by rape advocates that rape is not being properly prosecuted might actually put women off from reporting. Here is why: in the UK, the Home Office, and politicians seeking to jack up rape convictions, have long cited the attrition rate for rape, which is the number of convictions as a percentage of number of reported crimes. That rate is 6%. But, the Home Office, and everyone, uses the conviction rate (the number of convictions secured against the number of persons brought to trial for that given offence) for all other crimes. In fact, the conviction rate for rape is 58%. The result of such dishonest advocacy has been to make it appear that law enforcement is terribly, and uniquely, ineffective when it comes to rape. The Stern Review noted that use of the attrition rate instead of the conviction rate "may well have discouraged some victims from reporting." Stern Review, see page 45 (emphasis added).

Refusing to prosecute rape lies hurts not just innocent men and boys, but actual rape victims. For every criminal act, our society accepts the notion that punishing the wrongdoer will promote, among other things, deterrence. In false rape case after case after case, judges and law enforcement officials bemoan the harm to actual rape victims done by the lies of false accusers. With every rape lie, the integrity of every rape claim is diminished. In order for rape to regarded as a serious social malady, the general public, including prospective rape jurors, must be assured that the police are not unfairly prosecuting innocent men and boys and are holding rape liars accountable for their crimes.

oneiorosgrip · 2012-08-02T11:27:47+00:00

The prevalence and tolerance of false allegations is one of my focuses, too. I see the feminist position on this as an admission that they consider men to be less than human. One cannot advocate the sacrifice of one class of individuals for the benefit of another without first at least mentally designating the sacrificed class as less valued, having reduced rights at the most fundamental levels - in this case, due process.

I went through and addressed a series of the arguments I've seen feminist false-allegation apologists use on a regular basis. Maybe you will find some of it useful in future debates on the topic.

From the segment on viewing prosecution of false accusers as an attack on rape victims:

This assertion is based on the pretense of an either-or competition, pitting the rights of rape victims against the rights of the falsely accused. The claims are as follows: First, that the effort to prevent men from being wrongfully convicted would create a legal environment in which legitimate rape allegations would not result in conviction due to the court's requirement for actual evidence; and second, that penalizing women for leveling allegations proved to be false will discourage legitimate rape victims from coming forward.

The first claim, offered as an argument in support of rape victims, is really an attack on due process. What the debater is really articulating is the belief that women should be able to expect to accuse without evidence, yet automatically be believed... or turning it around, that when accused by women, men lose their right to be presumed innocent until proven guilty, the very base upon which the western concept of due process is framed.

The second claim, also offered as an argument in support of rape victims, is really an attack on the value, or weight, of the human rights of men in comparison with the human rights of women. It amounts to the assertion that some men may be subjected to involuntary sacrifice of their rights, reputations, health, families, and freedom, to foster the emotional comfort of some women.

Taking the attitudes of these claims to an extreme end, one could justify the abolition of due process. If affording accused criminals the right to due process is a violation of the rights of crime victims, then there should never even be hearings held to determine the validity of criminal charges involving a victim. As soon as there is an injured party, it doesn't matter whether the party convicted is guilty. It only matters that someone is convicted. Who cares about a few human sacrifices when there are women to protect, right?

Ted8367 · 2012-08-02T09:35:33+00:00

Rape should be treated the same as other crimes are treated.

What are the special attributes of rape that mean it should be treated differently?

Hach8 · 2012-08-02T17:10:21+00:00

Probably going to get downvoted for this, but prosecutions for false claims would be problematic to say the least, because it would undoubtedly have a very chilling effect on actually true claims of rape. If you were at risk of going to jail for bringing your rape case forward, it would really make you consider whether or not it would be worth it to do so - likely keeping you out of court. In essence it increases the risk for the person bringing the claim of rape, which would undoubtedly discourage rape claims depending on how risk averse the individual is.

The real answer isn't punishing women who bring false claims. The answer is to restore the CJS to what it is intended to be - a system that protects the accused. Things like anonymity, automatically expunging the charges when found not guilty, restoration of all due process, etc. In essence, the idea would be to make sure a false claim of rape doesn't injure a man's livelihood significantly in the first place.

The problem is that rape claims have become too easy to bring, too detrimental to the accused, and too difficult for the accused to contest. None of these problems are solved by criminal prosecution of false claims. The stakes need to be lowered, not raised.

Gingor · 2012-08-02T19:33:42+00:00

shouldn't feminism simply be teaching woman not to wrongly accuse

Nah, its way better to teach men to no rape /s

Basically, if feminists hate 'victim blaming' females who were raped so much, why would they victim blame men who were falsely accused

Because if they aknowledge that man can be victims too, it would take away the current standard "the women is the victim" stance of society.

For example, if a women kills her husband, he must have deserved it/hit her/she must have been abused in her childhood, etc. If a man kills his wife, he is a women-murdering scumbag.

so why don't feminists-who are supposedly here to help women be strong

Oh, you are wrong there. Modern feminism isnt about making women strong, its about making them "empowered". "Empowered" doesnt come from within, its an external factor. Its made by laws, by society, while strength comes from the person themselves.

Basically, modern feminists want weak women that are "empowered" by the circumstances.

callumgg · 2012-08-02T17:15:32+00:00

Note that not all feminists are like this, lest we become a circlejerk.

westerchester · 2012-08-02T17:28:51+00:00

A little math.

If the U.N. statistics are to be believed, there are an average of 90,000 rapes per year. Combine this with the percentage of false accusation (r/2x offered 3%, FBI shows unfounded accusations, meaning not false but incorrect at 9%), this means anywhere from 2,700-7,200 incorrect allegations are made each year...which is kind of a lot, when you don't couch it in a low sounding value like 3%.

But, since 90% of rapes go unreported, all these numbers are likely meaningless.

2012-08-02T17:51:02+00:00

[permanently deleted]

2012-08-02T09:08:39+00:00

Maybe we just need to make prison a good'ol time. Perhaps invert prison and not prison. If you get convicted of something you get thrown out of prison which is not really prison. Then all the feminists would be rounded up in prison throwing men out of prison. Coming back into society(prison) should be voluntary. Maybe the only way to deal with feminists is to give them a fake kingdom like that. Maybe if you feign some outrage when you're thrown out of it they'll be happy with it.

rbcrusaders · 2012-08-02T17:21:56+00:00

[permanently deleted]

Title	False rape accusations are the aspect of feminism I am against the strongest-here is why.
Author	rbcrusaders
Upvotes	17
Comments	38
Date	August 2, 2012 5:35 AM UTC (13 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/xjt2h/false_rape_accusations_are_the_aspect_of_feminism/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/false-rape-accusations-are-the-aspect-of-feminism.1016699 https://theredarchive.com/post/1016699

Comments