Penn State students protest in support of JoePa's right not to protect ten-year-old boys from being raped

[–]barn_burner 2 points3 points4 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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Nope. He took it to the person who is, for all intents and purposes, the police commissioner of a 256 person police force which according to the Campus website says: "(The University Police are) governed by a state statute that gives our officers the same authority as municipal police officers."

I'm not sure about this. According to the Grand Jury Indictment, Paterno reported the event to Curley, the Athletics Director. Curley then told Schultz, the VP, who is the head of the campus police but not technically law enforcement (although Penn State campus police ARE sworn police officers, Schultz isn't), Source, refer to pages 7-12..

People are upset because they are stupid unthinking emotional sheep, unable to think rationally or have empathy for another human being. Judgmental fucks.

What about the victims? There are eight young male victims. If you read the Grand Jury report, you will see that what happened to them is pretty heinous.

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[–]thingsarebad 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

Agree, of course. It's sad to see the FRS spend time demonizing Joe when they should be focusing on the fact that the accused is automatically painted guilty, and not just guilty because of the other charges, but based solely on this one individual charge. That's what FRS should be focusing on. All this article does is feed into the politically correct bullshit, the same bullshit that says women cannot rape men.

From Wikipedia: On November 7, Pennsylvania state police Commissioner Frank Noonan said that Paterno fulfilled his legal obligation to report suspected abuse, although "somebody has to question about what I would consider the moral requirements for a human being that knows of sexual things that are taking place with a child,"

See, the accused is already guilty, and therefore Joe is evil for not hunting him down and shooting him himself I guess?

Honestly, this shit does not belong in men's rights other than as an example of why misandry exists in the first place - because people are so good at shutting off their brains and basing decisions based purely on emotion.

[–]PierceHarlan 3 points4 points5 points 14 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

Honestly, and I say this with all due respect, you are hurting our cause with your rants. I will explain why in a manner more explicit than I had wanted to detail in my post.

First to recap: Joe Paterno was told by someone who had no motive to lie that he witnessed an unspeakable sex act. That doesn't make the alleged perpetrator guilty. If Joe Paterno had gone to the police immediately, not to his "superior," then this would have hit the fan many years ago. Joe now admits he wishes he had done more, and it was the great sorrow of his life. The fact that Joe isn't a criminal doesn't lessen the severity of the situation, in which Joe was a peripheral bystander.

Now here's the important part: Because Joe didn't go to the police (which would have blown it wide open), we are instead left with yet another high profile cover-up of an alleged sex act that only gives credence to people who claim we live in a "rape culture," where rape is swept under the rug and tolerated; indeed, encouraged.

You are condoning actions that are akin to the very thing that feminists claim occur all the time. I call this an aberration, because it is. But it is an aberration I can't ignore it, because I lose all credibility if I do.

[–]thingsarebad 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]PierceHarlan 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]thingsarebad 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago* (3 children) | Copy Link

What I'm saying is it isn't an example of "rape culture". The media certainly is painting it that way, and the public at large would certainly like to get all up in arms about it, but that's not what it is. There is no "rape culture". This is not an example of "rape culture". If there was a cover-up - and though you cannot call what Joe did a coverup, perhaps his superiors did, I don't know enough about the case to say - if there was a cover-up, it was not "rape culture", it was for other reasons. People don't do things because they just love rape. So if Joe's superiors actually did cover things up, rather than just find the accusations flimsy, which I suspect, then it's because 1) they didn't want a scandal, 2) they didn't want the school to be harmed by such a scandal. That's it.

And unless they found conclusive evidence that he did something, then the REAL reason they didn't look into it further is that they know that any child sex abuse scandal, whether true or not, would harm the school. If we lived in a world where you could hand over such a case to the police and expect them to actually treat the case fairly, and expect the public not to over-react and call for a lynching of the accused and a boycotting of the school, then I'd say it would make a lot of sense for Joe and other to report it right to the police. But we don't live in that world. We live in a world where men are considered guilty and the public will demonize even the innocent. So why should Joe and his superiors contribute to that?

You're claiming to be against the false rape culture we have today, but at the same time you're throwing victims of that false rape culture (Joe) under the bus. In a perfect world, Joe's choice would have been easy. All he would have had to do was weigh the loss of Sandusky vs the possible rape of a child. But that wasn't his choice. He had to weigh in the possible destruction of a man, probably a friend, who even if innocent, would be destroyed. If he knew the guy was guilty, do you really think he would have kept his mouth shut? Come on.

Joe didn't know whether the accusations were true. He allowed his superiors to do their job. He knows that accusations of sexual assault do not equal sexual assault, which is why it isn't relevant if "the prez told him Sandusky was banned from the facility". Do you think Joe is gone because he thinks he did something wrong? I don't. I think he's gone for the same reason Sandusky was banned from the facility - public relations.

Hey I feel like Johnny Cochran. Joe didn't know! Joe didn't know!

And yes, I believe Joe when he says he wishes he had done more back then. But hindsight is 20/20, and that's still under the assumption that Sandusky is actually guilty. Perhaps Joe now believes he is guilty because of all the accusations. If Joe thought Sandusky was guilty back then, I'm sure he would have "done more".

FRS's title?

The heading. "For the men and women falsely accused of rape." I'm Jay.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

The media certainly is painting it that way, and the public at large would certainly like to get all up in arms about it, but that's not what it is.

.

People don't do things because they just love rape.

I haven't seen any media reports that include the term "rape culture", although this may be an example of it. Here is the Wikipedia definition of rape culture, which I am sure you have seen a hundred times by now. Note that it does not say anything about loving rape or encouraging rape, just condoning and normalizing it. Bearing that definition in mind, can I ask you politely why you deny the existence of a rape culture?

If there was a cover-up - and though you cannot call what Joe did a coverup, perhaps his superiors did, I don't know enough about the case to say - if there was a cover-up, it was not "rape culture", it was for other reasons.

If you want to read up on the case, these are all good sources:

NYTimes

Grand Jury Indictment

Associated Press

Washington Post

I think it is especially important to read the Grand Jury Indictment, especially pages 7-12, which detail the "cover-up".

it's because 1) they didn't want a scandal, 2) they didn't want the school to be harmed by such a scandal. That's it.

.

the REAL reason they didn't look into it further is that they know that any child sex abuse scandal, whether true or not, would harm the school.

This is basically what happened here. They were hoping to cover up or at least contain the charges within the institution in order to avoid a scandal that would tarnish the institution, the football program, and each of them personally.

[–]thingsarebad -1 points0 points1 point 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

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I am going to upvote this even though it's completely false, because I didn't know that one of the university higher-ups he reported it to was the head of campus police.

Here's a concept for you.

If you have been reading this place for a while, you will be aware of the men's rights issue about rape prosecution on campus, being held to a lower standard of proof than elsewhere. This implies that university rule enforcement is biased against men.

Now you can't have it both ways. If this coach reported a crime to university enforcement, he reported it to a body that violates men's rights with false authority- and is apparently totally incompetent in other areas as well.

Jo Pa should have gone straight to the real police. Especially after someone walked in on an assault and did nothing, he should have done something without a second's wait. This defense of him is a pedant's way of getting around this. Also, fuck that guy.

[–]TheRealPariah 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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I did read your article and I enjoyed it very much. That said, I believe that someone in this clusterfuck - and especially Curley and Schultz - should have involved the state police in conjunction with the Penn State police.

I agree with you that Colleluori brings up very interesting points, especially in regards to point one ("a police department has a right to set its policing priorities") and point three ("assuming Paterno did go to the Chief of Police for the Penn State police department, the person under Gary Schultz, would that not be an act of insubordination"). Still, I think this case was mishandled and I still believe Paterno is culpable, due to his actions after the shower incident was reported. In other words, I feel that his real failing is in not enforcing the Sandusky-no-youth-on-campus ban.

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[–]PierceHarlan -1 points0 points1 point 14 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

[–]thingsarebad -2 points-1 points0 points 14 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

Paterno didn't just give his information to a superior, he turned it over to the highest ranking official in that police department. That man, PSU's VP of Business called in the ACTUAL WITNESS and spoke to him. In other words Paterno could see an investigation.

Jesus Christ, Pierce, you sound like a feminist. You aren't using logic.

Then, I take it, Joe realized that the grad student, who had no motive to lie, was nuts, right?

Really??!!

Same thing a feminist says when the police decide not to prosecute a rape accusation.

REMEMBER, ACCUSATION????

What the fuck is wrong with you?

Get this shit out of men's rights, it does not belong here, it does not belong on your blog.

You are doing justice a disservice.

TIL: You believe that in accusations of rape against women there should be no rush to judgment, but in accusations of rape against children GUILTY! BURN HIM!

[–]PierceHarlan 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

"What the fuck is wrong with you?"

I don't know what got into me, but maybe it's ALL THE STUFF I'VE BEEN PREACHING AT FRS FOR THE PAST 2,500-PLUS POSTS!

Let me quote my post, because you obviously didn't read it:

"Let's make one thing clear: this is False Rape Society. We do not engage in rushes to judgments. Jerry Sandusky, the ex-coach accused of sexual improprieties with boys, deserves the presumption of innocence and the full panoply of due process rights granted by the U.S. and Pennsylvania Constitutions.

"But we also preach that allegations of sexual misconduct need to be taken seriously. That means reporting allegations to police and letting them investigate.

"We can't plausibly insist that the purported rape epidemic is exaggerated, and then in the next breath, condone situations where a serious allegation is not reported. We can't plausibly insist that women who are raped have a duty to promptly report -- as difficult as that often is -- if we excuse powerful university officials from that obligation. A ten-year-old boy shouldn't be expected to report his own rape.

"Joe Paterno was the trustee of little boys' dreams. He dishonored that trust, and now he has to pay for it."

I will add this: Persons wrongly accused of rape do not favor sitting on legitimate rape accusations. It is reactions such as yours that engender disrepute of our movement.

[–]thingsarebad 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago* (6 children) | Copy Link

You know what this situation reminds me of?

It reminds me of the McDonald's cashier who defended himself from two women. It reminds me of all the judgmental idiots in the public who claimed that he should have stopped sooner and that he went past self-defense, the sheltered fools who have never actually been in a life-threatening situation themselves.

Similarly, you have no right to judge Joe's actions. He did what was legally and morally obligated.

You have no right to judge Joe Paterno. He did what was legally obligated, and from here:

He took it to the person who is, for all intents and purposes, the police commissioner of a 256 person police force which according to the Campus website says: "(The University Police are) governed by a state statute that gives our officers the same authority as municipal police officers."

So he did what was morally obligated as well.

And here's the most important thing:

You demand that Joe should have done even more. Yet we live in a society where men who are accused of such crimes are ASSUMED GUILTY. That means that you think a possibly innocent man should have been thrown under the bus in the eyes of the public and lost his job. You demand that Joe should have assumed the guy was guilty and, when the University police did not pursue the charges, he should have gone on a one-man quest to make sure the guy lost everything based on ONE accusation.

You're arguing here for the presumption of guilt for men. Fuck you, you useful idiot.

Joe doubted the story, as well he should have. He didn't presume to find him guilty without knowing more. He followed the letter of the law and trusted in it to see to justice. He did all that was required of him. And the stupid sheep of the world want to see him burn for it.

It is reactions such as yours that engender disrepute of our movement.

SMD. It's people like you who let emotion cloud their reason who allowed the erosion of men's rights to occur in the first place and to continue today.

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Title	Penn State students protest in support of JoePa's right not to protect ten-year-old boys from being raped
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	16
Comments	68
Date	November 10, 2011 4:22 PM UTC (14 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/m7j73/penn_state_students_protest_in_support_of_joepas/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/penn-state-students-protest-in-support-of-joepas.1031881 https://theredarchive.com/post/1031881

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