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woman charged with tricking women into sex by pretending to be a man .

Scott2508 · 2011-10-12T21:54:58+00:00

ok as for the 40th thousand time we have had people labeling us transphobes for not all wanting to sleep with transwomen i felt that this may be a good time to...

Scott2508

October 12, 2011

6 upvotes

/r/MensRights

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Post Information

Title	woman charged with tricking women into sex by pretending to be a man .
Author	Scott2508
Upvotes	6
Comments	27
Date	October 12, 2011 9:54 PM UTC (14 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/la230/woman_charged_with_tricking_women_into_sex_by/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/woman-charged-with-tricking-women-into-sex-by.1033257 https://theredarchive.com/post/1033257

Comments

[–]chavelah 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]rantgrrl 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

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[–]Scott2508[S] -1 points0 points1 point 14 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

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[–]NotTheHumanTornado -2 points-1 points0 points 14 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

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[–]InfinitelyThirsting -1 points0 points1 point 14 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[–]theozoph 2 points3 points4 points 14 years ago* (8 children) | Copy Link

[–]InfinitelyThirsting 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]theozoph 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

I'm not sure I agree with you on this. On a hetero to homo scale, having sex with a pre-operative MTF transsexual, or a FTM without reconstructive surgery (which I hear is common) is pushing the boundaries of people's sexual preferences.

A lot of people might be uncomfortable with this, and I think the transgender should respect the fact that, in intimate relationships, the ambiguity inherent in transgenderism does question their partner's sexual preferences.

Therefore, an open policy would be the best defense against accusations of "rape by deception" (I hate the term, but I hope you understand the problem as I have exposed it), and would also prevent transgender people finding themselves in potentially violent situations (always better to break the news in a public setting, rather than behind closed doors).

[–]InfinitelyThirsting 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

Like I said, I support disclosure and honesty--I'm just saying it shouldn't have to matter. Pre-ops aren't what is being talked about, either; I specifically said "that you are otherwise attracted to". If you can get naked with them, and do the deed, it shouldn't be shaking to find out that they weren't born that way. Taking their clothes off and finding out that they're pre-op and being turned off isn't transphobic, because yeah, that's not the genitalia you're attracted to.

There is really no difference between post-op issues and racism, or religious bigotry. Transphobia is rooted in homophobia, but at the end of the day to be weirded out after the fact is because you don't accept them as women. It isn't even a particularly serious issue, if they accept them and treat them well in every day life. So just acknowledge it's a hump you can't get over (if that's indeed the only hump you can't get over), that's fine. It's just the people insisting it's not phobic at all that infuriate me a bit.

The person I originally responded to, who made the comment about transphobia, is a transphobe. Look a few up in the thread, and he calls them men who think they're women, and uses male pronouns. He would be horrified at sleeping with a post-op trans woman because he thinks they're men.

[–]theozoph 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Well, I'm sorry, but you can't dictate what another person believes. If bypassrdto thinks a transgender is a person with a psychiatric rather than a genetic condition, then he is entitled not to want to be with a man with delusions of womanhood. From his own point of view, that would question his sexual preferences, and he obviously wouldn't want that. Though I wonder how he would react to a woman with AIS... :)

What I ask of transgender people is basically what you ask of heterosexuals : try to understand us, and make accomodations. Not everyone will believe as you do, and not everyone is going to want to start a disturbing and often difficult process of questioning his/her sexual identity.

Nothing good will come out of taking a hardline stance, on either side on this argument. You have to be willing to judge the person, and look beyond the faux-woman rapist / transphobic asshole stereotypes.

[–]InfinitelyThirsting -1 points0 points1 point 14 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

No, I can't dictate what they believe, nor do I want to (though I really don't see the problem with having to question your preferences, you should be questioning everything, ignorance isn't a positive thing)--but I can declare it as bigotry when it is. I just wish bigots, even really mild ones, would admit it. I'm not calling them all assholes, but recognizing bigotry is the first step to society eventually overcoming it, so I'll have to disagree when you claim nothing good can come of taking a hardline stance.

Biological sex isn't a binary, even without trans issues--that's a scientific fact. You have all kinds of chromosomal mixups that happen, from XXY to XO the cases like this where someone is XX, but with Y DNA transcribed onto the second X so they are functionally and seemingly male, and so on. 1% of all births are indistinct enough to be deemed intersex, and those are just the visible ones. That's about how much of the population are dwarves/little people. Or, with the exception of a few places, how many redheads there are. It's not that uncommon.

Insisting on the binary is just wrong. I can make accomodations, but I'm not going to let someone blindly go about with a factually incorrect worldview without saying something. Whether they want to listen or not is their issue.

[–]theozoph 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Insisting on the binary is just wrong. I can make accomodations, but I'm not going to let someone blindly go about with a factually incorrect worldview without saying something.

Well, insisting that transgenderism is a biological phenomenon might be a little premature, and even if it is, perhaps not applicable to the whole trans population. So my point would still stand : yes, there are trans/homophobes, but it might be that fucked up people exist on the other side of the fence, too. Therefore, a little caution isn't too much to ask, without being called nasty words for it, now is it?

I just wish bigots, even really mild ones, would admit it. I'm not calling them all assholes, but recognizing bigotry is the first step to society eventually overcoming it, so I'll have to disagree when you claim nothing good can come of taking a hardline stance.

Trans/homophobes are bigots, I agree, but to earn that distinction, I think you have to do more than say "not interested, sorry". If you want to see real transphobes, find that video of the two girls kicking a transgirl into convulsions that was posted a few weeks ago. That's what hatred and ignorance look like.

People making informed comments you disagree with, do not apply. To say they do, that is the hardline stance I'm talking about. And to brush the whole r/MR with it is nothing but slander.

[–]InfinitelyThirsting -1 points0 points1 point 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link