this will drive you nuts the most blatant double standards i have read in a long time.

thrawnie · 2012-07-01T23:06:32+00:00

What restored my faith in women is a lady (Philippa) who commented under that article:

So, at the Chippendales show, you talked to the (female) audience, at Spearmint, you talked to the (female) performers. Might have been interesting to hear from the men, in both cases...

Essentially ripped the article to shreds without any big fuss.

TracyMorganFreeman · 2012-07-01T21:34:54+00:00

It feels joyous. I am clapping. I don't know why I am clapping, or when I started. And I don't think we are clapping the Chippendales as they churn through every hackneyed female fantasy – the policeman, the fireman, the soldier, the gangster. We are clapping ourselves, because we can be lecherous and bestial, and we can scream it.

And the award for rationalizing objectification with intellectual masturbation goes to...

For women, it has nothing to do with sex

It is a fantasy, and the women here know it is.

ಠ_ಠ

The Chippendales respond by becoming avuncular, and gracious. They hug us and kiss our hands. They have turned from sex gods into kindly male relatives

So making men do what you want is...not about power?

2012-07-01T21:18:12+00:00

Women are never sleazy, even when watching strippers!

Gingor · 2012-07-01T21:31:54+00:00

Women watch men strip for fun. Men watch women for darker reasons

For women, it has nothing to do with sex. For men, it is about power

When we watch others shed their clothes, what do we reveal about ourselves? The Chippendales are in Britain this month to kick off a 20-city European tour, and the girls at the Spearmint Rhino lap-dancing club are always available. This week, I have been to both to wonder what – if anything – is exposed alongside the flesh?

In Edinburgh, the Chippendale audience piles in. It's a Barry Manilow convention attacked by a hen party and digested by Sex and the City. There are old women, young women, pretty women and angry women. Everyone is in a group – there are no solitary customers – and everyone wants to sit together at the front, close to the nudity. I expect to see women climbing on to the chandelier, like bats crawling up a wall. They are excited – and showing that they are excited. Their behaviour is precisely opposite to what women are supposed to do when they like men.

What are you here for, I ask one group of teenagers. "Naked men!" they scream. What about you, I ask another lady, who must be 80. "Antique furniture is wonderful to see on stage," she quips.

The hall goes dark and a voice shouts out: "Welcome to the ultimate girls' night out in Edinburgh! Don't forget to visit the merchandising stall on your way out! Are you ready?" Yes, we scream, and out come the Chippendales, dressed as builders. They swing their thighs, and look ecstatic, like cartoon heroes.

It feels joyous. I am clapping. I don't know why I am clapping, or when I started. And I don't think we are clapping the Chippendales as they churn through every hackneyed female fantasy – the policeman, the fireman, the soldier, the gangster. We are clapping ourselves, because we can be lecherous and bestial, and we can scream it.

The Chippendales walk out into the audience. I was expecting the bolder women, the ones who leap into the air to catch the Chippendales' T-shirts like expert netball players, to lunge and go for tongue kisses and intimate gropes. But it doesn't happen. When we are offered them at close range, we go shy. Instead of running up to them, we move away. We seem to be avoiding them. There is not a single woman here who actually wants to have sex with a Chippendale. We are all mouth, and no panties. Sex has left the building. We want cuddles, not tongues.

The Chippendales respond by becoming avuncular, and gracious. They hug us and kiss our hands. They have turned from sex gods into kindly male relatives. Outside I meet a woman who jumped for a T-shirt, fighting off other women to get it. "I'm not that bothered about it now," she tells me, "Do you want it?"

It is a fantasy, and the women here know it is. They seem happy, almost relieved, to let it go. It was a day trip to Disneyland where Mickey Mouse has monster abs.

The Spearmint Rhino Club in London, by contrast, is subterranean and windowless. There are a few men sitting alone, watching a naked woman dance. It is a pensive dance, oozing melancholy. Around the room, perhaps 20 young women, in tiny dresses and porn-star shoes, vie for the men's attention. It doesn't feel joyous; if the rhino had a face, it would be weeping.

The financial dynamic is different. The women pay the club £85 a night, but will earn £20 for a lap-dance and £400 for a "sit-down", where they accompany the men to a private booth and dance for up to an hour. To earn the money, they have to beg. They have to walk up to the men and persuade them to pay the cash. They all have different techniques. One smiles from a distance. One bounces down on to a man's lap. One licks her lips.

I watch an elderly man with the face of Count Dracula holding hands with a gloriously beautiful young black woman. He hasn't booked a dance yet but she is holding hands with him in hope. He squeezes her thigh. She laughs. Another man watches a blonde pole-dancing on the bar. He is staring at her, but yawns openly. She smiles, puts her fingers to her lips, and says, "Shush".

The manager brings two girls over to speak to me. One is about 30, with a beautiful cat-like face. The other is younger and has the open, perfect face of a child. Her breasts are totally exposed. Do they ever get aroused dancing? "Never," says the child-like one. "It is like any other job," says the other, "You have your down days and your up days."

"There are four types of men who come here," she says. "There is the one who thinks he will meet his next wife. There is the curious man. There is the businessman who brings his clients to nail a deal. And then there is the man who never spends any money." She gestures towards Count Dracula. "He is here four times a week and never pays for a lap-dance." He is still touching the black girl's thigh.

So why do they do it? "The money," says the younger girl. Sometimes she makes £2,000 a night. What do you enjoy about it? "Nothing," she says. "You imagine hearing the same conversation every night for four years. Shall I ask you what your tattoo means 20 times a night?" And why do the men do it? "To pull a stripper is on every young guy's list," says the older girl. "The older men know we will talk to them. They have their pick. It's a power trip."

I didn't want to come to a conclusion as prosaic as Chippendales good, lap-dancing rhinos bad. Even as I watched the Chippendales play dirty cowboys, I wondered why they were doing it. But at least they were worshipped. The power dynamic at Spearmint Rhino seems entirely different. The men can make these beautiful women compete for them, when in real life they never would. There was no joy or even appreciation. As I leave, I wonder – have I seen a dark part of human sexuality, sliding wonkily down a pole?

This week Tanya watched the Mariinsky Ballet Company perform Swan Lake at the Royal Opera House. "Ballet dancers don't eat. Were their exquisite movements really shouting, "I want some chips!"? She read Vanity Fair. "Michael Jackson is still completely dead".

Have a quote, no need to give them views.

Gingor · 2012-07-01T21:29:11+00:00

The Spearmint Rhino Club in London, by contrast, is subterranean and windowless

A. Not all strip clubs are like this. B. It couldnt possinly be because its cheaper and is less likely to attract "decency" protesters.

To earn the money, they have to beg

Its a customer oriented job. It isnt begging, they ask if the customer wants a job performed. Oh, and it is phrased as if they had to beg to get their money after they did their job. That isnt the case. Strip clubs (usually) have big, scary bouncers and people who dont pay usually get at least a bloodied nose.

I watch an elderly man with the face of Count Dracula holding hands with a gloriously beautiful young black woman

Note how this compares to:

There are old women, young women, pretty women and angry women

So, apparently, as a old, ugly woman its perfectly acceptable to go to a strip club. But if a men does it, hes exploiting the poor young women.

He hasn't booked a dance yet but she is holding hands with him in hope. He squeezes her thigh. She laughs.

Its called advertising. People want to get a look at merchandise before buying. You dont turn away from potential paying customers, at least not if you want to survive. Its the same for every business.

So why do they do it? "The money," says the younger girl. Sometimes she makes £2,000 a night. What do you enjoy about it? "Nothing," she says. "

O, Booh-fucking-hoo, the poor girl makes only over 2000€ a night and she has to do a job she doesnt like. Tough shit. Lot of people have to work jobs that absolutely ruin their health and that they hate for minimum wage. Its capitalism (not that I would like capitalism)

"The older men know we will talk to them. They have their pick. It's a power trip."

Yeah, sure. Couldnt be that they are just lonely because their wifes already died. (I honestly know old men whose wife died and whose kids never visit that have practically adopted young strippers or prostitutes as children and treat them like that)

The power dynamic at Spearmint Rhino seems entirely different

Nope, it aint.

lap-dancing rhinos

Well, that DOES sound amazing. Slightly dangerous, but amazing.

Jacksambuck · 2012-07-01T20:04:50+00:00

For women, it has nothing to do with sex. For men, it is about power

I lost interest after that line..

ObsidianOverlord · 2012-07-01T21:21:59+00:00

Women even have to be innocent of all sexuality or urges as they watch men strip now?

Also: when she says it's about power for men ... does anyone else think that the men in that situation were almost 100% powerless, they seemed more like the rabbit than the fox.

Also: also: if you ask anyone who's been doing a job where they talk to people for more than a year they are most likely not going to like it. Strippers are no exception.

MRAfront · 2012-07-01T22:18:38+00:00

It is not surprise this article comes now, when the new movie for the summer "Magic Mike" about male strippers is now plying, this is an attempt like always shame male sexuality and excuse female's.

If any of you take a look at Pinterest, you will see how mush women objectify men, posting picture of any young shirtless man and talking what they will do with him, no matter if he is a minor like Taylor Lautner from Twilight when he was 16 and 17.

girlwriteswhat · 2012-07-02T01:38:49+00:00

So she thinks about what she's experiencing as a spectator, and compares it with what the [female] strippers assume are their spectators' motivations and experiences. Without interviewing a single male spectator. Huh.

Edited

Chowley_1 · 2012-07-01T22:38:12+00:00

I'm noticing a lot of removed comments, which I assume were censored.

vote4petro · 2012-07-02T00:33:32+00:00

I think it's also a bit of an unfair comparison to put the Chippendales - professional male strippers - up against this strip club, which by her description, doesn't sound all that "professional", or at least to the level of the Chippendales.

BinaryShadow · 2012-07-02T06:34:08+00:00

There is not a single woman here who actually wants to have sex with a Chippendale. We are all mouth, and no panties. Sex has left the building. We want cuddles, not tongues.

I highly, highly doubt that. I love how she can speak for all internal feelings of all women in the room, screaming like school children at male flesh.

Outside I meet a woman who jumped for a T-shirt, fighting off other women to get it. "I'm not that bothered about it now," she tells me, "Do you want it?"

That's because she regained her humanity after leaving the crowd. When in Rome, you'll subconscious do as the Romans do. That includes acting like wild starving animals when a lump of meat is thrown into the pen if everyone else is doing it.

The financial dynamic is different. The women pay the club £85 a night, but will earn £20 for a lap-dance and £400 for a "sit-down", where they accompany the men to a private booth and dance for up to an hour. To earn the money, they have to beg. They have to walk up to the men and persuade them to pay the cash. They all have different techniques. One smiles from a distance. One bounces down on to a man's lap. One licks her lips.

It's nice to know she interviewed men looking at the female strippers nearly as enthusiastically as she did the women looking at the male strippers. In fact, she didn't even interview the male strippers. If the women don't want the EASY EASY money of stripping, they are free to leave. There is no power games involved. Employment at will.

Even as I watched the Chippendales play dirty cowboys, I wondered why they were doing it.

Never hurts to ask, sister.

MaunaLoona · 2012-07-01T19:50:07+00:00

Ugh, writing this garbage gets them lots of page views.

ValorIsLost · 2012-07-01T19:02:20+00:00

Just because some men aren't loud, wild, and obnoxious doesn't change the fact we are doing the same damn thing: watching someone get naked, paying them for it, and then leaving. My dad is the Assistant Manager at a gentlemen's club and I attend work with him regularly to help with clearing bottles and trash from tables and just being an errand boy, and there are plenty of men who are ridiculously overworked and loud over a pair of breasts they didn't have to work for.

blackcat21 · 2012-07-02T00:26:06+00:00

My favorite comment on that article was

Iamnotacrook:

So in summary, four legs good, two legs bad?

V_Ajra · 2012-07-02T03:52:38+00:00

Of course: If women go to a Chippendales show it's just "girls being girls and havin' fun!", but if men go to a strip club they're all perverted sociopaths who can't interact with women outside the "grimy" environs of the strip club.

Makes perfect sense!

BinaryShadow · 2012-07-02T03:25:44+00:00

I think this is just one of those things, thats just how it is and to try ands change it would be a waste of time, both men and women enjoy their different versions and I can leave it at that. I wish they would keep it out of the movie theaters still tho, and the reactions women are having to that wild mike movie is disgusting and would not be tolerated from men.

Narconis · 2012-07-02T04:32:14+00:00

It has nothing to do with "power". For some men, it's the only way to get any female attention. For others, it's easier to toss a girl a few bucks get a look, and go jerk off. (hey, it's cheaper than plying a girl with drinks). And yet for others...like the girls...you go for fun. I went to a strip club with my dad, my uncle, my brother, and my cousin last year. I assure you, none of us were sitting there with hard ons. Instead, we had fun. We talked to the girls, and we made each other laugh.

"It feels joyous. I am clapping. I don't know why I am clapping" and then later she says it has nothing to do with sex.....um...no...that's exactly what it is about. Quit deluding yourself.

Leinadro · 2012-07-02T04:36:30+00:00

Hold on is this the article that was supposed to be about why men and women look at strippers where the writer determined this by only talking to women that look at male strippers and women that strip for male watchers? Yeah she managed to discern the motives of male stripper viewers without actually talking to male stripper viewers.

J__Man · 2012-07-02T05:11:33+00:00

she's comparing chip and dale strippers to regular strippers, is she an idiot? the chippendale dancers practice routines and shit, the place she went didn't seem like they did any of that. she compared a shitty hole in the wall to chippendale dancers that travel world wide......

Jacksambuck · 2012-07-01T20:03:59+00:00

I didn't want to come to a conclusion as prosaic as Chippendales good, lap-dancing rhinos bad.

You gave it your best shot. Impressive.

What I wouldn't give to have been in her brain the moment feminist instincts kicked in and reason went out the window : "Looks like a duck, quacks like a duck (SYSTEM ERROR-women pure beings of light)... definitely a cow !"

Aren't they supposed to be egalitarians ? You'd think they'd be happy to find some convergence between the sexes.

There is not a single woman here who actually wants to have sex with a Chippendale.

Urgh. Now, if I was a hardcore essentialist and I actually believed that garbage, I would say that is definite proof that women have no sex drive whatsoever. Why doesn't she ponder on that for a sec, instead of attacking men because of the "It's not the same when I do it"-principle.

NiceIce · 2012-07-01T22:01:14+00:00

Wow, she has things completely backwards.

NineTails21 · 2012-07-02T04:49:07+00:00

Eh, Doesn't bother me, what some stupid online blogger or whatever says is of no importance to me, I'm not about to let the idiotic ramblings of some femidouche affect my life, I got better things to do.

AlienSamuraiNewt · 2012-07-02T15:03:28+00:00

Places where female strippers perform are so seedy because male sexuality is considered "dirty". If it were acceptable for the average man to watch female strippers, just as it's acceptable for a woman to watch the Chippendale's dancers, the mood and clientele in such places might change.

buddamus · 2012-07-02T03:11:05+00:00

my wife has paid for a girl to lap dance for her, how does she fit into this?

Title	this will drive you nuts the most blatant double standards i have read in a long time.
Author	Scott2508
Upvotes	97
Comments	55
Date	July 1, 2012 5:52 PM UTC (14 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/vvwmc/this_will_drive_you_nuts_the_most_blatant_double/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/this-will-drive-you-nuts-the-most-blatant-double.1018774 https://theredarchive.com/post/1018774

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