xpost - Coerced consent vs Enthusiastic consent

imironman · 2011-07-19T19:01:31+00:00

I think the word coercion is misunderstood there. Definition:

the act of coercing; use of force or intimidation to obtain compliance.
force or the power to use force in gaining compliance, as by a government or police force.

She was not coerced. She was convinced. So what? She's a big girl. She can say no. If something like this has had this large of an effect on her she should really seek professional help. One of the commenters suggests that:

It is possibly that she was afraid of being physically abused by him or possibly afraid that he would leave her if she didn't "play ball".

When is this indicated? Never. As a female I don't live in constant fear that a big bad man will hurt me if I say no.

What happened was not her fault

How wasn't it? She is an adult. Capable of making her own decisions. She isn't mute? She has a way to communicate. She could have said no and NOT willingly participated. Being a weak push-over and then regretting it later is no ones fault but her own.

Arguments like this and the concept of "coerced consent" (with the exception of ACTUAL coercion) does nothing for women. It just makes us look like we are weak and stupid, incapable of handling our own sexuality and communicating our own desires.

FascistOrigami · 2011-07-18T23:54:42+00:00

If women are so weak that they need special legal protections to counteract their inability to stand up for themselves, then I question their ability to be equal to men in a legal sense. If women are as vulnerable as children, then they should be treated as children under the law.

I realize the post is not making any legal assertion, but one of the central pillars of modern feminism is the goal of chipping away at the meaning of "consent". And for the record, I am firmly in agreement that women should be treated as equal to men in the eyes of the law (i.e., equal in opportunity and application of civil and criminal law), but every argument that a feminist makes by way of appealing to the special "vulnerabilities" of women weakens the argument for being treated equal under the law.

Those two words, “enthusiastic consent”, helped me realize that what had happened wasn’t my fault.

Sweetie, nothing is ever your fault, is it?

BolshevikMuppet · 2011-07-19T15:55:04+00:00

sexually repressed, to the point it's impacting her social life. Good thing they have doctors for that

First, let's not make normative judgments about sexual repression. If we want to argue for the non-demonization of sexuality, that includes people who are not all that sexual. It has to cut both ways.

If she's not comfortable with where things are going, then it's entirely up to her to do something about it

In this case, maybe. She didn't like sex, and shouldn't have agreed to it. Fine. But she also doesn't call it rape; she merely points out that she wasn't enthusiastic, and that her lack of enthusiasm should have tipped her off in the first place. Though, I'm curious how you would feel about a boyfriend whose girlfriend nagged him for months about trying pegging, who eventually agreed to it, and didn't like it. I wonder if you would be quite so cavalier. I certainly would not be.

On its face, your point is entirely valid, but it goes down a disconcerting road. Once we've started to say "it's the responsibility of the victim to defend herself to the utmost" it sounds an awful lot like the old rules where the only rape was rape by physical force or threat of force. I don't buy it.

As a man, if a woman gets me drunk and pegs me, that's rape. If a woman slips me some viagra before I go to sleep and fucks me, that's rape. If a woman coerces me by any means, that's rape.

Title	xpost - Coerced consent vs Enthusiastic consent
Author	Bobsutan
Upvotes	3
Comments	22
Date	July 18, 2011 11:39 PM UTC (15 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/itaj0/xpost_coerced_consent_vs_enthusiastic_consent/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/xpost-coerced-consent-vs-enthusiastic-consent.1037100 https://theredarchive.com/post/1037100

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