Official: Men make better bosses than 'moody women who can't leave personal life at home'

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points9 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]kog13 13 points14 points15 points 15 years ago (25 children) | Copy Link

I'm going to make the "this is generalization" comment, which is true; some women make great bosses. I do believe that since girls are taught to think with their heart to a much greater extent than boys, it's difficult to transfer to a situation where others would prefer that you didn't; hence the discrepancy.

IMO, the other side of this is that very little emphasis is put on leadership for girls. I went through Boy Scouts and have talked to several girls I know that went through Girl Scouts, and the almost universal purpose of Girl Scouts is simply to make friends. Boy Scouts, while making friends is a perk, focuses much more on achievements; merit badges, ranks, and designated leadership positions. My troop especially focused exclusively on the idea of a boy-led troop (adult leaders simply sat back and watched); I don't know any girls who've done anything similar.

[–]InfinitelyThirsting 2 points3 points4 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

IMO, the other side of this is that very little emphasis is put on leadership for girls. I went through Boy Scouts and have talked to several girls I know that went through Girl Scouts, and the almost universal purpose of Girl Scouts is simply to make friends. Boy Scouts, while making friends is a perk, focuses much more on achievements; merit badges, ranks, and designated leadership positions. My troop especially focused exclusively on the idea of a boy-led troop (adult leaders simply sat back and watched); I don't know any girls who've done anything similar.

As an ex-Scout, who was in Girl Scouts for ten years, it really depends on your troop, your leader, and your personal drive. It's really easy, if you want it, to be a junior counselour at camps, to help out in younger troops, etc. But a lot of Girl Scouting has gone down the tubes, to the point where at camping events, multiple troops would order in pizza rather than cook something. But the Boy Scouts in our area kind of sucked as well.

Your base point is correct though. It's an example of gender privilege, much as I hate that phrase, that boys and men are far more encouraged to be leaders. If girls are only half-heartedly offered that kind of education, of course they aren't going to be as good at it.

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You just haven't read anything about evo-psych

Yes, I have - and guess what ? Its about 100% speculation, sometimes supported speculation, but if you think its a "hard science" you're a fool.

Once you got back to our primate roots, it is even more of the same to gather the most females, all the line down to our first sexual ancestors. Millions of years of competing for females.

Yea, except our closest relatives, Bonobos, are matriarchal and practice an incredible amount of "free love"

Once back, men are still jockeying for status as the best hunter, the best chief, the most powerful individual in the tribe.

You've never, ever played team sports. Ever. You've also never studied hunter/gatherer tribes, their hunting habits and hierarchical organization. You should start with the San people, as they're the closest to what our most ancient ancestors were like.

[–]theozoph 3 points4 points5 points 15 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

Yes, I have - and guess what ? Its about 100% speculation, sometimes supported speculation, but if you think its a "hard science" you're a fool.

There is nothing about evolution that can be construed as "hard science", because we're still guessing at its mechanisms, for the most part. Doesn't mean it's bunk, except if you like your Bible a little too much.

Yea, except our closest relatives, Bonobos, are matriarchal and practice an incredible amount of "free love"

The bonobos are very far from us in terms of behavior. If you want a closer look, go no further than the chimpanzees, our other close cousins. Murder, band warfare, adultery, rape, incest, cannibalism, hunting for meat (often monkeys), it's all there. Only pot-smoking hippies think we're supposed to be bonobos. We're chimps all the way.

You've never, ever played team sports. Ever. You've also never studied hunter/gatherer tribes, their hunting habits and hierarchical organization. You should start with the San people, as they're the closest to what our most ancient ancestors were like.

You've never, ever played team sports. Ever. You've also never studied hunter/gatherer tribes, their hunting habits and hierarchical organization.

I used to play rugby, and have read more anthropology books than I care to count, so you're wrong on both counts. Of course I know about the San, we have pictographs indicating that their culture might be literally thousands of years old, and definitely predates the Bantu expansion (here, have I sufficiently proven my credentials?).

That doesn't mean much, though. Cultures adapt to their environment, and people living in harsh conditions are rarely very aggressive, for obvious reasons. Anyway, the San have been pushed to desertic areas, so we can't even be sure that their modern-day culture is anything like what they were like 6000 years ago.

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with spears and rocks and shit, killing animals is easy work. the competition comes into play when males compete to the right to hunt the prey

in hunting large mammoths, men cooperate first then compete for the biggest share of the kill.

I was talking to one of my female friends yesterday about a roommate situation. They had all agreed (3 girls) on a set price for the master bedroom and all 3 were okay with getting the masters. they drew sticks to decide who would get first pick, etc etc (females, smh). Girl 1 and 2 decided to take the small rooms, and Girl 3 was left with the master bedroom. A week or two later she starts to bitch about how the master bedroom costs too much and demands that the rate be lowered.

As everythign was already agreed upon, i saw no dilema at all. I told her to just tell the roommate, we all agreed already, take it or leave it, we'll find someone else to take the master.

Throw in the fact that girl 3 DEMANDED, not ASK about flexibility, I really saw no reason why the girls should cooperate with her request at all. They even tried to do -$20/month instead of girl 3's request of -$30/month and girl 3 just flatout refused.

I thought she was making problems for herself over something that is easily solved, but her cooperation instincts are fucking everything over.

I don't know how any of that is related or makes sense, i'm pulling shit out of my ass.

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I think it's relevant because it contrasts these people's real-world experiences of women in managerial roles against the claims often seen in the mainstream press about women having a host of positive traits that make them better leaders.

It is commonplace and acceptable in mainstream society for negative traits to be attributed to men and positive ones to women when comparing the sexes--yet doing the opposite invokes a very emotionally charged response and such claims get shouted down with accusations of sexism and misogyny (as in your post).

Well, which is it? Do men and women vary, with each sex having a greater or lesser tendency toward certain positive or negative traits, or is it all down to socialization?

The way I've seen this play out is that either claim will be made--depending on which puts women in a positive light in a given context.

For example, when sounding the trumpets to proclaim that more women are needed in leadership positions in business, politics and academia there is no hesitation in claiming that women and men are different, with women bringing a great number of positive traits to the table (needed to balance men's negative ones).

However, when claims are made for males having more of a positive trait (especially when made to explain men's success in a given area) or for females having more of a negative one, the response is to deny that such differences between men and women exist, to attribute it to socialization or discrimination and to accuse those making the claims of being chauvinists and misogynists.

It's real-life doublethink in action.

I think more attention needs to be paid to this in order to raise awareness of the duplicitous doublethink, so that people are required to choose one consistent position and extrapolate it through all contexts.

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Good point; as far as I know, companies with females on the Board of Directors do tend to do better than the market average.

There are several possible explanations. Random chance, of course - the sample size isn't that great. Public perception of 'progressive' companies, or the indirect benefits of having a workplace progressive enough to accept female CEOS (benefits such as allowing counter-culture geniuses greater leeway within the company) could also be the cause. Another hypothesis would be that - due to the various difficulties present for women - only the Sharkiest of the Sharks rise to the top. We're comparing extreme female outliers to male normals.

The last one is, in my opinion, the most likely candidate; but then again, women might just be better leaders in general.

If that were true I would be slightly surprised, as I said - but it wouldn't rock my world. In my experience women tend to be better at networking, men better at hierarchies; and leadership is primarily a hierarchal thing. But I could be wrong.

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You cannot control the hormonal surges occurring naturally in your body. You cannot control your behavior encoded in your epigenetic code, and cemented by millions of years of a selective evolutionary pressure. Everybody is a slave to its biology. Humans are just another species of animals with inflated sense of self-worth. Just because you have a few billion more neurons than your close mammalian relatives, it doesn't make you a master of your biology. FFS, hundreds of millions of people are willfully taking all kinds of drugs and intoxicating substances every day, in order to "rectify" perfectly normal bodily reactions.

If feminists want to work on something I could approve of, they could start with that.

Yes! The problem with the entitlement complex is that it's not a bad thing for women. So fixing it would imply conceding substantial social benefits on man's expense. The entire feminist movement can be seen as the entitlement complex run amok.

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Title	Official: Men make better bosses than 'moody women who can't leave personal life at home'
Author	sadax
Upvotes	1
Comments	99
Date	August 12, 2010 2:25 PM UTC (15 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/d0ddx/official_men_make_better_bosses_than_moody_women/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/official-men-make-better-bosses-than-moody-women.1048145 https://theredarchive.com/post/1048145

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