By Request: A Set of Statements About Women Concerning Abuse, and Earning Potential

zahlman · 2009-09-16T05:58:39+00:00

but I (many of you do as well, I think) recognise that the issue isn't a man versus woman thing, but more of a man versus man's perceived image (one held both by men and women).

It's about treating men fairly. There are subreddits about treating women fairly as well. And subreddits about treating everyone fairly, whether they're men or women.

The reason MR is necessary is for balance, so that men aren't overlooked in the equation. "Treating everyone fairly" does sometimes require that you examine subsets of "everyone" with something in common, and identify issues that are specific to that subset.

kloo2yoo · 2009-09-16T12:40:15+00:00

Statement: Women earn a fraction of what men do.

Source: http://gao.gov/new.items/d0435.pdf

response:

You completely rephrased your statement from before.

Your original statement was this:

women being paid less than men to perform the same jobs,

this is what I refuted, with this challenge:

If you offer me a solid reference proving that women are being paid more than 10% less FOR IDENTICAL JOBS, WITH THE SAME TIME IN JOB, AND THE SAME NUMBER OF SICK DAYS, I promise I will look at it.

But you won't.

And you didn't. The GAO report does not show that women in the same jobs, with the same time in job, and the same number of hour worked, are paid less. It explicitly states in bold letters on the first page of the report that work patterns partially explain the difference between mens' and women's earnings.

I determined this by reading the first page of the report, where it said, "Work Patterns Partially Explain Difference between Men’s and Women’s Earnings "

You have failed here to meet my challenge.

However, by eliminating the challenges:

women are being paid more than 10% less
FOR IDENTICAL JOBS,
WITH THE SAME TIME IN JOB,
THE SAME NUMBER OF SICK DAYS,

you created your own challenge and met it.

Here's a book for you: http://www.amazon.com/Why-Men-Earn-More-Startling/dp/0814472109

Even the AAUW cites a differing amount if time at work and time in job as significant factors in the wage gap:

http://www.aauw.org/research/behindPayGap.cfm

THis looks at the AAUW study closer, and finds flaws in http://feck-blog.blogspot.com/2009/09/pay-gap-persists-women-still-make-less.html

This report by CONSAID, included this statement from in the a forward. this statement was from the US Department of Labor:

However, despite these gains the raw wage gap continues to be used in misleading ways to advance public policy agendas without fully explaining the reasons behind the gap.

http://www.consad.com/content/reports/Gender%20Wage%20Gap%20Final%20Report.pdf

(CONSAID did the research, US Dept. of Labor provided the forward.)

and look at this:

"At any given level of the career hierarchy, women are paid slightly more than men with the same background, have slightly less income uncertainty and are promoted as quickly," it concludes. "We concluded that the gender pay gap and differences in job rank in this most lucrative occupation is explained by females leaving the market at higher rates than males."

Quoting a Carnegie Mellon University study. http://feck-blog.blogspot.com/2009/09/pay-gap-persists-women-still-make-less.html

kloo2yoo · 2009-09-16T12:53:05+00:00

Statement: Women are more abused in relationships than men.

Source: http://www.ojp.gov/bjs/intimate/victims.htm

response:

I have already provided you with a link to refute this claim. I provide it again here. You may have to go to a college library to examine the sources, but they do exist and they are not "invalid" because some or most are published in journals that must be purchased or borrowed from college universities.

http://www.csulb.edu/~mfiebert/assault.htm

Here is a 32-nation study showing similar numbers in female and male perpetrators of domestic violence. Importantly, it included research in "non-westernized," nations.

http://pubpages.unh.edu/~mas2/ID41E2.pdf

Nearly 250 scholarly studies show women are at least as likely as men to engage in partner aggression and that partner violence is often mutual.

zxcvcxz · 2009-09-17T21:24:09+00:00

I think you guys could benefit by separating your discussion of each other's sources from your discussion of each other.

To me you both seem to be trying to make the world better, but some confusion happens and all of the sudden cursing and condescending talk appears.

LowerHaighter · 2009-09-16T13:42:39+00:00

[permanently deleted]

Title	By Request: A Set of Statements About Women Concerning Abuse, and Earning Potential
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	0
Comments	40
Date	September 16, 2009 4:23 AM UTC (16 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/9l04k/by_request_a_set_of_statements_about_women/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/by-request-a-set-of-statements-about-women.1052866 https://theredarchive.com/post/1052866

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