Crosspost "An excellent comment exploring why men are hesitant to get on board with feminism." from /r/FeminismUncensored:

The following was a comment by /u/bcre8tve. But it's very well written. and certainly deserves it's own post.

The problem with telling men to "just get comfortable with expressing your more feminine side" is that it treats men as defective women, who simply need to act more like how women do, to free themselves from the shackles of toxic masculinity and allow themselves to be the beautiful men they have always been.

Except, that's not how that works. Men are not defective women who need to act more like women to be healthier. Men are their own class, their own entity, their own identity, which is different from women, faces different challenges from women, and have a different mindset from women. Any proposed solution that fails to understand this very basic fact, will fail to help men. Telling men to open up more just places a double bind on men.

Women tell men to express their emotions, but when men actually do, often men are told the equivalent of "eww, not like that". Men are told that they should express themselves, but the message they hear from the often negative feedback is more akin to "we want men to express their feelings the way women like it". Men's emotions are seen as something that ought to be used to benefit women, more than it ought to be used to help men. Men can't express themselves in any way that makes women feel unsafe, and the overwhelming majority of safe spaces are safe spaces by women, for women, made to help women, not men.

Feminism does not seem to understand masculinity, the plight and issues of men, or the psychological needs of men. Any solution that is proposed based on flawed premises will more often than not lead to incorrect conclusions. Then, when men resist those incorrect conclusions and speak up about their experiences, talk about how terms like patriarchy and toxic masculinity are actually used as slurs against men to insult them and demean them, men are told their feelings don't matter. They're told it's unfortunate they feel bad, but that's an individual issue (not a systematic one) and the terms are too valuable and important to change. Basically, men's feelings on these issues, which directly concern men, are irrelevant, compared to preserving the feminist narrative.

So what kind of message are men supposed to understand when they're told to share their feelings, and then told to shut up when the feelings they share aren't feelings that many feminists want to acknowledge or deal with?

The concept of the sensitive new age guy is also problematic, because it represents this idealistic pacifist passive man who never does anything to make women uncomfortable, but when men actually try and emulate that model, they can't really get the sexual attention of women like they want to. It works fine for having female friends, and absolutely should be emulated to have good friendships, but it's basically telling men "stop being yourself and be like this to be friends with women", and when men act in the new age way, they still see plenty of women going with the bad boys and the guys who break all the rules that new age guy is extremely careful to follow.

Basically, the new age guy is rewarded with friendships so long as he maintains the uber-respectful pro-feminist persona, but isn't rewarded in any significant way in terms of female attraction and sexuality, while he sees the bad boys and rule-breakers getting plenty of attention.

There are a few good sayings to keep in mind. Trust, but verify. Trust actions, not words.

Men are not stupid, they verify and can see that the new age guy gets lots of female friends, but actions speak louder than words, and being the nice new age guy doesn't get guys what they want. It's a way to tell men to do all these nice things to help women feel safe and give women what they want, without giving men anything that the men want. Men are told over and over and over again that they have to change and be better for women. For once it would be nice to hear people say that women ought to change and be better for men too. Equality is not a one-way street.

How do we resolve it?

Actually listen to men. Listen to what they say and accept that men's experiences are just as valid and important as the experiences of women and minority groups.

Accept that most men do not hold power and privilege over most people in society. The people who hold the most power and privilege are mostly men, but most men do not hold the most power and privilege in society. The bottom 50% of men are just as disaffected as many women, and fare significantly worse in many areas.

Recognize that there are systemic issues that affect men, and that men are victims. Close to half of all rape victims are men. More than half of all domestic abuse victims are men. Close to 75% of all suicide victims are men. 70% of all homeless people are men. 80% of victims of substance abuse are men. Men face jail sentences 1.6x longer than women for the exact same crimes. Being a man is a far more significant predictor of being a victim of police brutality than race. Most of these issues significantly and specifically affect men more than women. Men can be victims too, so let's stop with the narrative that women are the mostest oppressedest victims ever. If feminism wants to resolve men being resistant to feminism, it has to start campaigning for men's issues and recognize where men are significantly victimized too.

More than anything, act on this. It's very nice to talk the talk for sure, but far too often men are told that yes their issues are recognized, and with that crumb of verbal validation their issues are then dismissed and seen as less important than women's issues. Talk is nice, but significant actions are needed to change the narrative and get men to feel that feminism cares about them. If we talk about suicide, and we don't put men forward as the primary victim, if we talk about rape and domestic violence without recognizing that men are just as likely to be victims as women, if we talk about police brutality without recognizing that men are the primary victims, if we don't enact any changes with how the narrative is going in all these issues, if we keep sweeping male issues and male victimhood under the rug, then things will only get worse.

Men are tired of being talked over, ignored, and invalidated. There's a significant amount of resentment there, and until and unless feminism is willing to put in the effort to bridge that gap and work to stop alienating men and make them feel accepted and welcome, then nothing will change.

Posted by Forgetaboutthelonely | 19 May 2021 | Link