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Good articles on punishing bad behavior/crossing a line?

mismm · 2014-02-05T14:34:03+00:00

I know about rewarding good behavior but what about the opposite?...

mismm

February 5, 2014

9 upvotes

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Post Information

Title	Good articles on punishing bad behavior/crossing a line?
Author	mismm
Upvotes	9
Comments	25
Date	February 5, 2014 2:34 PM UTC (12 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/TheRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/1x314e/good_articles_on_punishing_bad_behaviorcrossing_a/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/TheRedPill/good-articles-on-punishing-bad-behaviorcrossing-a.10937 https://theredarchive.com/post/10937

Comments

[–]2insickness 9 points10 points11 points 12 years ago (22 children) | Copy Link

When it comes down to it, there is really only one way to punish bad behavior. You are the prize. Your attention, your presence, your time, are all a gift to her. When she misbehaves, you take that gift away from her. You can do this at all different levels. With the most minor infractions, you simply give her negative body language (such as turning away, not giving her eye contact). With the most major of infraction, you refuse to ever see her again. The amount and severity of the punishment depends on the severity of the infraction. Other ways to dole out this punishment:

Not returning a text or phone call for a while (or ever and let her contact you first)
Not seeing her for a while
Ending the night early
Not contributing to the conversation for a while
Downgrading her from committed relationship to casual relationship
Ending the relationship and not seeing her for a while (or ever)
Not sleeping over her place or kicking her out of your place

[–]Endorsed ContributorOccamsUsername 7 points8 points9 points 12 years ago (19 children) | Copy Link

I support everything said here.

Your "negative reinforcement" should be your blatant absence or non-investment. If you engage in actual punishment, like yelling or "corporal punishment" as I've seen at least one user promote, you fulfill a sense of drama and risk INCREASING the behaviors you're attempting to correct because the essence of your punishment is still attention.

The only truly effective way to mete out punishment without increasing the risk factors for dramatizing disagreements or undesirable actions on her part is to withdraw. Make sure she knows that you've done so WITHOUT explicitly stating it to her unless something has gone terribly wrong between the two of you.

I would, however, be hesitant to end the relationship as a means of correction. This is a measure that, if corrected later, could fulfill that same drama seeking behavior. In my eyes if you have cause to end a relationship, you make it final.

[–]mismm[S] 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago [recovered] (9 children) | Copy Link

[–]Endorsed ContributorOccamsUsername 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[–]2insickness -1 points0 points1 point 12 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]PhantomDream09 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

If you are evasive she might not notice, or she may attribute your behavior to being stressed out/preoccupied with something else. Don't hesitate to bring up poor behavior when it happens. Tell her directly and calmly what she has done, why it is unacceptable, and how she needs to correct her actions moving forward. This shows that you are proactive, and you pay attention. You are letting her know that she isn't "getting away" with anything and that she needs to knock it off.

The other problem with the more passive approach is that it drags the whole situation out and enables it to last longer than it would if you simply sit her down and confront her directly. By calling her out immediately, you control the time-frame as well as the outcome. Once you conclude the conversation, the topic is closed, and it's up to her to go the extra mile to make it up to you.

[–]2insickness -1 points0 points1 point 12 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

I don't buy all this bullshit about having talks with her and confronting her on things. It shows neediness. And here's why. Her 'misbehavior' is also a form of her pulling back.

Let's take another example. Let's say you send her a text asking her a question and she doesn't respond until 24 hours later. That's bad behavior. But she's also pulling back.

Would you sit her down and have a 'talk' about this behavior? No. I would simply not text her for two days.

When she pulls back, you need to pull back twice as hard or her attraction will start to wane. It doesn't matter why she's doing it. Is she super busy at work? Did she forget to hit send on her phone? Is she out on a date with another guy? Is she feeling crowded? Doesn't matter. If she pulls back, you pull back.

She should be scared to death of losing you. When she is, her behavior starts to fall in line. She becomes sensitive to whether she's fucking up. When she does fuck up, all it takes is a few hints or her to get the idea.

Confronting her leads to long talks and conversations. It's typically blue pill advice: You need more communication in your relationship. I can't tell you how many relationships I've seen fucked up because the guy has talk after talk with his girl about her changing her behavior. She doesn't deserve your attention when she fucks up. She doesn't deserve the drama.

[–]PhantomDream09 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago* (3 children) | Copy Link

When I say that men should "talk" to their women about misconduct, I don't mean that they sit down, share feelings, and have a two hour soul-searching party. If you prefer, you can liken it to a lecture. This isn't a feels-based, let's explore the meaning of life and expose our inner spirit-animals to one another while we try to establish a hierarchy bonding fest. There's a very clear and direct purpose.

I would liken it more to the military if anything. When a soldier messes up, his superiors do not ignore his bad behavior in an effort to prove that he doesn't matter and has no power. When someone messes up, their superior immediately points out the screw-up and drives the point home.

Talking about a problem immediately also applies to anyone on this sub that equates introducing TRP to women to training dogs. If a dog pees on your floor, you don't ignore the dog for several hours and then try to make the dog understand what it did wrong. Too much time has passed and the dog won't equate your displeasure with peeing on the floor. Ignoring the problem only muddles the message, frustrates you, and confuses the dog.

Successful business don't shelve problems and hope they go away. If they see a weakness they aim to correct the problem. If it's a person that's falling short, then management tells them they aren't performing as expected. If the person continues to fall short and fails to improve - then they're fired.

When you talk to her, you don't go in as her equal. You maintain dominance and authority. You remain calm, and stay in control. You clearly list what mistakes have been made, why they are unacceptable, and that they must not be repeated moving forward. You control when the conversation begins as well as when it ends. Once you close the subject, do not re-open it. Tell her "this conversation is over." You can be distant and withdraw physically both before and during the conversation. Make it clear that she needs to come to you and make up for her blunders.

I just think it's more effective to directly address any issues. It shows that you are a capable leader, proactive, and that you notice when something is off. Ignoring her after she initially ignored you doesn't send a message. It's too easy for her to think "oh well I forgot about him because I was busy, and now he's busy. No reason to worry, we'll meet up later." If you give her the room and the time - her hamster will work the problem into non-existence, or somehow turn you into the person that slighted her. I just see too many opportunities for more drama and nonsense to get generated. Nip problems in the bud, and don't allow weeds to grow in your garden.

I could probably come up with several more analogies, but hopefully you now understand what I'm driving at, and why it's actually in your interest to be proactive.

As an aside, I'd like to thank you for helping me start my morning off on the right foot. I've been accused of being a lot of things on reddit, but "Blue Pill" is a first for me. The thought definitely put a smile on my face and made me laugh. I don't think they'd find it too humorous though. Haha!

:0)

Edit: To be fair, it also depends a bit on if you are dealing with a plate or a woman you are in an LTR with. You also have to consider her temperament. I was talking to another RPW online, and she's much more aggressive and dominant than I am. If she ignored her husband, she remarked that he'd burn down part of the house, to illustrate a point. An equivalent reaction (to me) from my SO would be for him to simply narrow his eyes slightly and give me a stern look.

[–]2insickness 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Endorsed ContributorOccamsUsername 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Wait, so you're saying in the case I presented, where she didn't return your text, you would talk to her about not returning texts?

Within the frame of relationships, which you'd presented earlier, yes I would confront my partner on non-communication. It's not acceptable behavior for her to not treat me with priority. If you're talking about plates outside commitment, your solution is much more appropriate given that context.

Would you have a talk with her if she didn't fuck you? What if she wasn't physical enough with you?

THOSE two are very different, you don't talk about a lack of attraction explicitly, that's a recipe for disaster. That indicates some severe problems with your ENTIRE dynamic and should be addressed not on a social level, but behavioral for both plates or within an LTR. Absolutely agreed on this one.

You talking with her is a reward for her. The punishment is you pulling away.

I run a very authoritative ship in my interpersonal dealings. "Talking" is not a reward when I do so, and I don't embrace any emotion whatsoever. There is no emotional indulgence, there is only top-down, stoic correction, and THEN withdrawal while she focuses her energy, anxiety, and time on what she needs to do to get back on level ground with me. I say what I want, and then it's done. There is no back talking or argument. I speak my mind, and it's up to her to correct her behavior to my satisfaction.

[–]PhantomDream09 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

If she's ignoring you by not replying - it's because you aren't attractive enough to her. She doesn't respect you and want you enough to bother with politeness and consideration. That's not her failing - it's your's.
If you're unhappy with the amount of physical attention she gives you, it's because she isn't attracted to you. Either you need to initiate more frequently (go after/take what you want), or you need to concentrate on displaying your value. Make it clear to her that you are desirable. Or, if that's too much of a hassle and inconvenience - next her for another plate. Screwing and moving on requires very little effort when compared to maintaining attraction and frame with one woman over a period of time. I know I am coming to this from the perspective of dating one woman consistently or being in a LTR with a woman. As SoftHarem has noted before: "LTR's are TRP on hard mode."
Again, I'm not referring to "talking" as a two way feels conversation or as an argument. It's you drawing the boundaries and giving out marching orders. I even said that withdrawing and showing indifference has its place in combination with directing/leading her.

[–]Endorsed ContributorOccamsUsername 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]monsieurhire2 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]assinmygenes 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]monsieurhire2 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Well, that was my point. This is a guy who had girlfriends for years, but was very bluepill in the sense that he would basically LTR any woman that would have him and never play the field. And so he was also bluepill enough to think that women only like gentle sex and always hate rough sex, when in fact, they like variety, like everyone else. If you don't give them rough sex unless you're mad at them, then they'll find ways to make you mad by doing things you don't like, rather than just ask for rough sex, because in their minds "real" emotion is better than pretend. Of course, you can invoke all kinds of emotions and fuck a woman like you're mad at her even if you aren't. But this is advanced applied psychology, also known as "magick" in some quarters, and many people don't understand it at all.

I used to joke with my ex-girlfriend that if she didn't behave I would only give her sweet, gentle sex and absolutely no pounding whatsoever. She would laugh because she exactly what I was talking about.

[–]2insickness 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

If you engage in actual punishment, like yelling or "corporal punishment" as I've seen at least one user promote, you fulfill a sense of drama and risk INCREASING the behaviors you're attempting to correct because the essence of your punishment is still attention.

Absolutely. Yelling shows an emotional investment on your part. It empowers her. And corporal punishment... that's a reward for her in the bedroom!

WITHOUT explicitly stating it to her unless something has gone terribly wrong between the two of you.

Definitely. Whenever you have an explicit talk with her, you are showing powerlessness. If she is unclear why you are withdrawing and asks you, you can tell her but you should never be the one to go to her and have a 'talk' about a problem in her behavior.

I would, however, be hesitant to end the relationship as a means of correction.

Correct. I've seen it done before, but it rarely ends well. I think under rare circumstances for certain infractions you could completely shut her out for an indefinite period of time, like a few weeks or months and gradually let her back in slowly if she she proves her worth. If anything, you can do this one time to a woman but even then you're rolling the dice. If she betrayed your trust once and did something so egregious that required this type of response, chances are there's something inherently wrong with the woman and/or the way she views you.

[–]Endorsed ContributorOccamsUsername 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

If she is unclear why you are withdrawing and asks you, you can tell her but you should never be the one to go to her and have a 'talk' about a problem in her behavior.

I would say this depends on if the problem is known or not. If it's a problem you have addressed before, no need to explain. If it has NOT been disclosed that you find her tardiness unacceptable, or something similar, I find it's best to be disclosed. I err toward disclosure when I see or encounter unacceptable behavior in the MOMENT it becomes clear more often than not. This is the most effective means of reinforcement, and the "dread" doesn't take hours or days to set in, they know they're on shaky ground immediately when you disclose your discontentment.

Guessing games can lead to misinterpretation or get their anxieties going in the WRONG direction, which isn't helpful for either of you. So, I promote directness as often as you personally feel is constructive.

[–]mismm[S] -1 points0 points1 point 12 years ago [recovered] (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]Endorsed ContributorOccamsUsername 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]mismm1 points 12 years ago* [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Endorsed ContributorOccamsUsername 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

Both would depend on the severity of the infraction. Lies and omissions are bad enough, but they are compounded by the seriousness in what was lied about or avoided.

Both 1 and 2 damage trust, even when the truth comes out. I would react with LESS severity if 2.) was the case in nearly every instance, unless it was a foundational lie or a completely unacceptable action for continuing a relationship.

Foundational lie examples: Partner count*, romantic history with one of her friends she's still close to, sexual history, existing/enduring romantic attachment to another.

Unacceptable action examples: Cheating on you, historical occurrence of betrayal in past relationships (also foundational for this one), telling you she's going to do X when really she had different plans the entire time (say, dinner/coffee with a male friend), staying over at a male friends house for any reason, blackout drinking, drug use you don't condone.

*I realize everyone says this is lied about, and I don't necessarily disagree. I am addressing this as though the truth is discovered and you've gotten proof to pin her as a liar on this.

[–]kborz1 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]2insickness 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]MahlerNinth 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]7Vega 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link