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The thing is, we do care. Most of us 'treat people how we want to be treated ourselves'.

This subreddit isnt for hating on women. Its for pointing out how fucked feminism is, and how its warping our society and HURTING women.

Because, in the REAL WORLD, feminist is a blight on humanity.

I get that we just lost womens rights to abortion (which I think is fucked, tbh) but my god. Open your fucking eyes.

This generation of women are the STATISTICALLY most depressed women. We teach women 'fuck having a family, GO GET A CAREER' then these women realize in their (even early) 30s that their choice to be a career woman was probably a mistake but.. WHOOPS! You waited too long and now you cant have kids. These 40 year old women are often times super lonely, and many get very jaded.

And what if I told you, its almost like, for THREE HUNDRED AND FIFTY MILLION YEARS women have been having children and raising kids so MAYBE when that part of their life is missing things feel 'off'. Could that possibly be the case? Of course not! The reason you are all depressed is because.. men hate you. En mass. And every man is out to get you. Were all rapists. And a part of this big bad patriarchy. So slam that victim card every fucking chance you get. Beats the hell out of waking up or putting in any effort in life. 100000x easier to play the victim than it is to grow.

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I don't want less more men. I'm not saying women get more by way of taking from men. Idk dude, I'm so tired of this conversation. I take no pleasure in combative, picking apart of another person and their phrasing. All of the things wrong with how men and women are treated, women being forced to carry a child they don't want, men being forced to pay for it, it's all terrible. Do you have female friends who would have a candid conversation about what scares them about men? If you do, ask them, honestly ask them what they want, why they feel like a lesser being and why they're scared of men. I promise you, every woman can recall at least one instance where they've had that white hot fear that fills their ribcage. I don't feel like talking to you anymore. You want to fight and be right, I want to find common ground. That doesn't seem possible. Good night

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No I didn't scroll through the mess; Enjoy the smugness. So, someone else very helpful informed me the word I should be using is egalitarianism. I think the word equality and the pursuit of it is going to be very complicated and nuanced.

1 in 4 women are more likely to be victims of severe physical violence compared to the 1 in 7 men. Inequalities that benefit women? You want me to try to take rights away from people? My whole argument this whole time has been in support of getting more rights to everyone. How/why would I answer a question I don't believe in? I'm not doing anything to change any of those huge issues other than voting. I vote for people who also believe in what I do about replacing the people who put these inequalities in place to begin with. I don't really think I'd be a great lawyer so I'm not going to law school if that's what you're expecting. What would allow both parents to opt out of obligation? Legalized abortion. The thing about those kind of laws, they're not woman's issues, they're people issues. Woman forced to carry a child she can't raise in her own, it stands to reason she would want/need financial help. Rights being taken away from one can ruin the lives of everyone.

I await your response telling me that one deflected/am illogical/somehow a man hater

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... Not really an optimist, are we? I think after the metoo movement, like with most things, the pendulum swung a little hard, but I think a good thing to remember is the mindset of the other side. I meant it when I said to talk to any girlfriends you have, I promise you all. of. them have a story about a time when they were assaulted/felt violated by a man. Women have been begging to be believed forever and now that the movement happened we have to figure out, what now? How do we move forward. But so much of the rhetoric focused on 'how's a man supposed to know' instead of just asking and learning about boundaries. This rhetoric is what people want us to focus on; because it distracts from fixing the real problem. If men made it easier/safer for women to to talk about this, think about how much that would help men feel safer to talk about their abuse? Problem is someone has to be willing to give and everyone is selfish/scared in their pain and don't how to let go of it for bettering everyone's lives

[–]kinhk2 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I’m sure they do and that’s fucked up. I also know a fair share of men who have been lied on and lost scholarships, jobs, had to move etc just by being accused. You asked me to remember the mindset of the other side, now I’m asking you to do the same. Not to mention the definition of consent has changed multiple times over the past few years, with the emphasis being put on the woman for some reason. Idk what men making it easier for women to talk about this means? Women have been talking about sleeping with powerful men since the beginning of time. That’s just one example, not including the kill all men crowd, the no uterus no opinion crowd, the constant hate against straight white guys. You cant ostracize and defame a group a people and then ask for empathy. A bit ridiculous, no? And I’m not referring to you personally btw.

[–]calamity_machine2 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Ya, the consent thing is super fucking messy. I don't know how to unpack that. I agree that men being falsely accused is repulsive. Women make these claims sometimes out of shame/regret/I don't honestly know. I can't in good conscious say that a man or woman actually getting raped is the same as a man getting falsely accused, which you might call hypocrisy. Yes each person's world is destroyed but being a survivor of sexual assault...That takes something from your humanity that leaves you hollow and lost. It can take forever to rebuild that part of you; some never do.

Women talk about sleeping with powerful meme and men talk about sleeping with women cuz they're young and hot. I think the wide sweeping '#allmen' movement is too much; shouting radicals on any side are too much and it's hard to say and even harder to do but some of those people need the most patience and willingness of another person to get to the real root of the extremism.

I'm starting to get sleepy and I'm having a hard time keeping my thoughts together. Like it said before, I have to believe that people at their core just want to feel safe, loved and heard. I know that sounds impossible but only until we decide to start trying

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[–]Someone2Sing41 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Meanwhile women traumatize men all the fucking time. Its not gender specific.

ALL of my long term girlfriends have cheated on me.

One was a narcissist who literally sucked the life out of me, manipulating me with 'i love you' and sex. Cheating wasnt even the most evil thing she did to me. Within a month of us breaking up she let me know she was flying to another country and 'I WILL have sex with (that guy I told you to not worry about that I cheated on you with for 3 years)'. Then, before she left, she got me horny again and had me take sexy pictures of her. I realized a day later that she was having me do it to send to him. She knew how much I loved her and appreciated her and how well I treated her. She made sure of that by asking me if I wanted to marry her before we broke up.

It traumatized me. Gave me PTSD. FOUR YEARS later my dad accidentally called my brothers GF her name and when I fell asleep that night I woke up bawling my eyes out from a nightmare of being manipulated again.

Ive been abused physically by a woman.

Ive been sexually assaulted by a woman. I drove an hour to see her. She grabbed my dick LITERALLY to check me for size. Then, when my car broke down and just needed a jump (I knew no one in the area) she dipped within 20 seconds of it happening. Straight opened the car door and said 'good luck!'. She also flipped out her dating app and showed me the pages and pages and pages of messages she had.

Ive lost TWO different jobs because of disgusting women. Being harassed at work. And made fun of / scapegoated / rumors spread about me, that sort of thing. One of these jobs was my favorite job Ive ever had, where I could use my artistic talent.

Ive been robbed 400$ by a woman.

Meanwhile how many women have I sexually assaulted? Or raped? How many women have I robbed? How many women have I made QUIT THEIR JOB because of my harassment? How many women have I cheated on? How many women have I lied to or manipulated for 3 years?

FUCKING ZERO. NOT A SINGLE ONE.

So FUCK OFF with this victim mentality. Its so far beyond disgusting its honestly unreal.

[–]calamity_machine1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I don't think all men hate women and I don't think all men are rapist/abusers. What happened to you was grotesque and I am truly sorry for what you've had to go through. I hope you are able to get the help you need and that there are resources available to you because you don't deserve to be burdened by the poison from others. I think there are awful/narcissistic/hateful/evil women just as there are those kinds of men. Most people, in my experience treat people this was because they've either been raised in an environment or have themselves been abused and channel their anger about what happened to them into hurting someone else.... Or on rare occasions they're just a horrible person.

Everyone is allowed to be angry/hurt about what's been done to/taken from them. You don't know anything about me, aside from this one thing. I don't view myself as a victim in my every day life about everything. This is a terrible scary thing that is so much bigger than just taking away women's right to her own body. Do you think it will stop at this? This will keep happening that will affect everyone. It well keep getting worse for everyone. We have to stop caring about just what affects us and care about it all

[–]Someone2Sing41 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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Go look for yourself at the forums.

You dont think its telling that r/feminism r/fourthwavefeminism r/nothowwomenwork r/askawoman and r/fourthwavewomen are all basically echo chambers with misandrist undertones spread throughout? Advocating playing the victim card like its an all encompassing get out of jail free card. Most of the time deflecting blame onto someone else who is typically a man.

And yea, theres a HUGE difference in the way men and women are treated. Why would you know how god awful dating women is? Youre a woman. You have zero experience dating women as a man. My statement about 'many women treat men like shit in dating' is objectively true. Not even debatable. Did you know that only 15% of men can viably use online dating baseline? Because of blatantly how shallow the vast majority of women are? As in, statistically speaking.

When the vast majority of women look for a partner they look for things like 'ability to make future resources and willingness to share' and other things like status, social proof, etc. Men dont give a shit about that stuff. Women dont have to deal with mens hypergamy because WOMEN are the hypergamous sex, not men. Women date up and across social competence hierarchies. As a biological mechanism for making happy healthy babies. What are men wired to do? See attractive woman with wide enough hips for childbirth and try to have sex with them. Its so amazingly different from our basic wiring its honestly absurd for men and women to be compared. Its not apples to apples at all.

Its objectively probably 10x easier AT LEAST for women in the dating market if you are 'just average'. And if Im being honest, its probably more like 100x easier.

"Most women don't think all men are rapists."

Yea, but most women WILL treat us as such if they decide were not compatible. Ghosting is an epidemic at this point, you get that; right?

Women comparatively put in maybe 1% effort. Compared to men putting in 100% of the time. Unless they are in that magic top 15% where they can use OLD and have women do all the work.

[–]calamity_machine1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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[–]calamity_machine1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I know you're allowed to be angry/frustrated. What's not ok is allowing yourself to be blinded by it which I think you are. You have a lot of rage about the women who have wronged you and I think you're allowing that to skew your overall view of women. These women you keep taking about are also angry; why are you allowed to be justified in your anger and they're not? Why is your anger more valid than theirs? You're right, I don't know what it's like to be a man dating women, isn't it also fair to say you don't know what it's like d woman to date men? You want compassion for your side of things; the best way to get it is to offer it. Again I really hope have access to resources like therapy and good friends you can confide in to help you worth theory the traumas you survived from the women who hurt you.

Also, Resorting to insults; be better than that

[–]Someone2Sing41 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Wait so you mean like.. the entirety of feminism?

You didnt come here to understand, or improve, or learn. You came here to be a shit disturber. Lets be honest.

What did I even get wrong? LOL Thats the thing. Most of what I said is either common sense, or well documented science. Not that you would understand at all because you arent a man.

And at the end of the day my 'reaction' is being frustrated with how fucked things are, whilst feminisms 'reaction' is deciding 'men are trash' 'women are victims' 'women can do no wrong' 'men are always at the bottom of a problem', 'being a mother is sooo below you, what you reeeally need is a career!', and just straight lying to women to get them to fall in line with their bullshit, as a part of some fucked / warped group-think. With the OH SO TELLING undertone of 'speak out against this cult and we'll ban / ostracize you'. Im not actively treating women like shit, starkly contrast to my feminist counterparts. Who are blatantly and clearly sexist. The fuck have I said that was sexist at all?

I thought it was funny as shit to read a post by a woman in r/fourthwavewomen complaining how she couldnt speak out because she was worried she would get banned. Imagine that, being a woman, not being able to speak because you are worried your cult leader mods dont actually want anything to do with free speech or a dissonant word.

Honestly if you cant tell modern feminism is fucked, you havent looked. Its so overtly obvious. This woke crowd loves to talk about 'toxic masculinity' well, you know what? Feminism is literally toxic femininity. Fucking up the very people they pretend they care about: women.

"You're right, I don't know what it's like to be a man dating women, isn't it also fair to say you don't know what it's like d woman to date men?"

You might be on to something if it wasnt objectively EASILY 10x easier for women in all aspects of dating outside of lacking physical strength and the inherent 'weakness' therein. Which, IMO if you are vetting men properly is probably very rarely an issue; even if it is a large issue inherently. I SINCERELY doubt you would want to trade places if you actually knew what it was like. SINCERELY.

Over HALF of all relationships start on a dating app. And 85% of men cannot viably use online dating baseline. You dont think thats telling??!? That maybe comparing apples to oranges makes no fucking sense, whatsoever?

Men and women are different. And honestly, hate to break it to you but as a feminist its TYPICAL that you would not understand or be able to acknowledge this, or why it would matter. You just want to see 'equality' as a forced perspective, even when its clearly not applicable because of the CONTEXT.

And you think youre going to not strike a nerve when you literally come out with some 13 year old 'yer mad bruh' xbox live response? Like you can take the high road here. Can you be any less genuine?

I'll ask you a question: Do you believe in the gender pay gap?

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I don't think only women are to blame for the fact that men can't come forward as survivors of abuse. A lot of things happened throughout history to get us here and they've kept happening to perpetuate that belief. It's truly tragic that men don't feel safe to come forward; but I think the biggest thing to take away from that is that men and women both fear coming forward for the same reason: shame, fear, what will other people think of me?, How will my peers look at me now?, Will I be believed.

I think the feminism that gets portrayed in places like Reddit are these men hating, selfish women who don't care about anything but eating men alive and taking what's theirs. That's not how I see feminism. I said it in another post but I think feminism is the wrong word, I think humanism is more accurate; at least that's what I hope. Men should be taken seriously when coming forward, they should have access to the same help and resources as women. It's not fair that for generations men have had to 'suck it up and stop crying' that's not right. Women haven't done a great job changing that narrative but men also have to be honest with themselves and admit that they haven't either. Everyone's been wrong, but that also means we have a chance to all make it right together. Reshape what it means to be a human being with feelings, fears, strengths...

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I want to agree but then remember catholicism; that shit has been going strong for over 2000 years and probably should have retired a while ago I think if a group gets big, it can also get powerful and then in becomes less about the message and more about staying loud/heard/profitable. At that point it gets big enough for a lot of exploitation of those who kinda joined later and don't fully know the group canon or they share the same belief but don't agree on ways to get there...I think you're right and if something gets big enough it should end but sadly these groups are made up of people and historically people aren't there best at surrendering power.

I like these kinds of debates too. Especially on Reddit when a lot of people are just looking to be right and not interested in listening. Good night 🌘☺️

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That was a lot to follow but I think I agree. I guess I was in the naïve mindset of 'that which we call a rose' but I guess that only applies to good things? I think you're mostly right about feminism accomplishing things in the 1960s, save for things that a lot of women still feel aren't resolved. women are still angry but idk maybe the right way to channel this anger in a constructive way was lost with the people of the original movement. Also the internet. Fuck this place. It's ruined society in so many ways. There are so many things that went wrong to get us to where were are now. I'm not sure how we unmake the monster shouting for equal rights strictly from the female perspective or the counter monster it's been shouting at for the last 100 years...I think I kinda lost the metaphor at the end but hopefully you know what I mean. Thank you for being willing to talk to me and teach me a lot of new, really helpful language I didn't know was what I really meant. Thank you for not trying to fight me. I think it's healthy to delve into opposing sides to see what/who they think they're fighting with.

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Some examples are

NOW has repeatedly opposed attempts at sensible alimony reform in Florida and other states. Turns out that "strong, independent women who don't need no man" still need lifetime alimony, apparently.

NOW has also opposed shared custody reforms in Florida (and other states) which would have ensured that fathers get to spend a reasonable amount of time, up to 50%, with their children after divorce. That aligns with the common feminist position that children don't need fathers, because #MenAreTrash after all.

could also have mentioned the continuing feminist efforts to strip men of basic legal rights, such as the 2011 "Dear Colleague" letter to colleges which stripped men accused of sexual assault on college campuses of the presumption of innocence and right to a fair trial.

Then there was the "Ghomeshi law" in Canada, a legal abomination that strips men accused of rape of the right to keep the details of their defense confidential until it's presented in court. Feminists pushed that law through after Ghomeshi was able to prove his innocence unequivocably through hard evidence, showing that his 3 accusers were lying and colluding together. Feminists in the UK and USA are working tirelessly to push similar laws.

In fact, feminists in the UK are lobbying to abolish prison for women entirely. Rather than trying to close the gender sentencing gap, currently at 63% longer sentences for men for the same crime with a similar criminal history, feminists want to increase it to infinity.

Of course there is also the worst thing feminists have ever done that has ruined or ended the lives of hundreds of thousands of innocent men (at minimum, likely millions): the Duluth model.

I could go on...

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Meanwhile if you cant find a misandrist post on r/feminism r/fourthwavefeminism youre probably blind.

Feminism hasnt been about equality in a long damn time. Which is literally the reason our entire subreddit exists. You get that, right?

Hell go look at this post on a womens subreddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/NotHowGirlsWork/comments/vku75n/so_women_are_the_ones_with_the_high_standards/

The top vote has pushing 2 thousand likes.. and she has no fucking idea that the dudes profile is CLEARLY satire! Meanwhile theres misandrist comments plastered all over the entire thread.

Youre just wrong. Most feminists are fucking stupid, and insane. Literally just walking around with their laminated victim card in their dominant hand so then can windmill slam it faster. Oh, and everything is a mans fault. Were all part of this big bad patriarchy, after all. LOL

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The only Difference is they like men and hate feminists, i agree tho if my only interactions were w online feminists id hate women too, the movement ended up as a platform for women to shit on men and the society centering men in the late 2010s. You can argue its still present on tiktok/twitter/ig but these people have moved away from the label of feminism as its got fuck all to do w womens equality and everything to do w pandering to an online audience of wannabe misandrists, however, i guess similar to the all men are rapists and abuser thing (except without actual logical fear of violence) people lumping all feminists as men hating fear-mongering idiots is insanely hypocritical, noone is gonna listen to ur cause/argument if ur argument is a massive contradiction to ur key beliefs- its either not all men AND not all feminists or both

[–]Rol9x 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

You obviously don't have a fuckin clue! Men and women are biological categories. Biological means that it doesn't take their political opinions into consideration. Men can be feminists, communists, nazis, liberals or anything else. Because "All men" includes all people with that biological characteristic. Feminists, however, can be men, women and any other inexistent and socially constructed gender who share the support for the feminist ideology. Feminism is hardly represented by idiots on twitter and tik-tok. There are a lot more dangerous feminists, in media, politics and academia. They do not usually make videos for social media platforms, but they spread lies in the media and they teach their students the favourite lies of feminism. There are a lot of famous feminists who expressed their hatred for men i ther writings and in their public statements.

And, no, I dont like men and I don't hate feminists. I am a man and I need to make sure that my rights and my family's rights are not breached by any ideology and any authority. I don't hate feminists because hate is a waste of time. But as I consider that their ideology is toxic and oriented towards destroying human rights, I do my best to create awareness and fight against them.

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Really?

Comments

So FUCK OFF with this victim mentality. Its so far beyond disgusting its honestly unreal.

Title	Really?
Author	Dr-Plague-Channel
Upvotes	145
Comments	250
Date	June 23, 2022 6:19 PM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/AntiFeminists
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/antifeminists/comments/vj3egz/really/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/AntiFeminists/really.1120294 https://theredarchive.com/post/1120294