For the love of God can someone please explain to an autistic more about frame?

MusicSports · 2017-09-18T19:16:10+00:00

Your frame is how you want to conduct yourself. Holding frame is not changing that to accommodate the people around you.

For example if you're at a party and you are dancing and a girl comes up to you and tries to talk to you. Losing your frame would be stopping your dancing to have a conversation with her. Holding frame would be saying "you talk too much" with a smile and counting to dance. Holding frame is outcome independent because you do exactly what you want to do regardless of how people around you react. She might join in dancing with you or she might leave. Either way you want to dance so you keep dancing.

Another is lets say after the party you'te talking with her about how crazy the party got. If she tries to shift it into a topic that bores you or doesn't relate to what you were saying, holding frame would be to keep talking about what you were talking to before, or even just walking away, whereas losing frame would be to build on what she said in the boring direction.

One more example would be if someone comes into your room and moves something in a way that displeases you, it's telling them to move it back in some manner. That consists of holding frame. Losing frame would be to pretend it didn't bother you and not mention it.

Make the world react to your action instead of allowing yourself to react to the world.

Shukakun · 2017-09-19T02:12:39+00:00

If you're autistic, I'd almost say you might have an advantage when it comes to frame. The quickest way to quickly lose frame is to be afraid of how people will react to what you say and do. Let's say you've seen the latest movie, and you really liked it. The girl you want to fuck comes along and says "So I watched that new movie yesterday. It was really terrible, right?". Someone with weak frame would agree with her because he fears her disapproval if he disagrees. Someone with strong frame would understand that 1. There's plenty of pussy in the world and pretending to be someone you're not is not worth it just to gain access to this particular pussy, and 2. Even if you were going to "do everything right" to get into her pants, shaping your opinions, principles and values at her every whim is a lot more unattractive than liking a movie that she hates. She might not realize you're doing this the very first time you do it, but trust me, women are good at detecting this kind of behavior, it won't take long before she does.

Autistic people may be socially inept and a bit disadvantaged overall when it comes to interactions with women, but in this particular case, it might actually help. Autists tend to passionately enjoy the things they enjoy and completely disregard feedback from others. Sure, it's annoying when your autistic friend talks about trains for 30 minutes straight, but you can be damn sure that he won't say he hates trains just to get into some girl's pants. Not because he doesn't want to be cool in her eyes, but because he probably doesn't even pick up on the fact that she thinks trains are uncool.

You would be surprised how much you can get away with in terms of hobbies and interests if you just own it instead of getting defensive and coming up with excuses.

I used to have a fucking human-sized anime pillow with this pillow case, got it as a gag gift from my friends, you know, similarly to how women love to give each other dildos as birthday gifts because it's just ridiculous. But I didn't just laugh and then stash it away in the attic, I kept it in my bed and slept while hugging it, was comfortable as fuck to be honest. The thing is, my friends would grab it from my bed during parties and show it to everyone, going "Look, he has this thing, lol!" And I was just like "Yeah, it's great, I sleep like a baby on Valium", no shame, no excuses. I've had sex with girls who were in that room as they demonstrated my extremely nerdy, not even close to socially acceptable pillow. Honestly, how is that even fucking possible? Just own your shit, live in your frame.

Remember the story about the Emperor's new clothes? Ancient stories like that that never seem to die are always some kind of representation of reality, there's always something to learn from them. The moral of this particular story is that humans are naturally conflict-averse and won't disagree with you if they don't feel that they have to. We're all bumbling through life like blind children, trying to figure life out. So when someone comes along and says "This is my perspective on the world, this is how things are" without even a hint of doubt or insincerity in their voice, we're inclined to believe them. If I behaved like you would expect someone to behave when potential sex partners learn that they have such a pillow, they would've run as fast their little legs could carry them. But when I confidently, almost proudly just said "Yeah that thing is super comfy, dude" while completely ignoring how weird it was, they didn't run at all.

That's what frame is.

htbf · 2017-09-18T20:58:33+00:00

If you're on a date with a hot girl, keeping frame means : not speaking much, being comfortable in silence, teasing when she plays coy, not mentioning how hot she is, and not being afraid to say anything you want, the daring it is, the better.

It boils down to TRULY believing you're someone worth something, being in the moment and being brave.

[deleted] · 2017-09-18T18:53:17+00:00

I know how what you mean. Even after I read The Rational Male I was still fuzzy on the whole concept.

Hopefully it builds on that in the second book.

Torabor64 · 2017-09-18T19:37:09+00:00

I agree that it is a very abstract concept, but to me, it's simply respecting yourself, knowing what you want and standing for it; being confident and not driven by emotions. Changing what you don't like or removing yourself from the situation if changing it isn't worth the effort.

Assholes have excellent frame because they don't care about pissing someone to get what they want. That's the way you should think. Don't get into fights for petty things tho, always be rational.

yumyumgivemesome · 2017-09-18T21:27:17+00:00

At some point it becomes the Matrix... you have to simply get into more and more social situations before you can start to recognize the nuances in yours and others' behaviors.

kranos33 · 2017-09-19T09:01:51+00:00

You have to realize that having/holding frame == strong boundaries You can think of them as equally interchangeable. Some people equal having frame and being an asshole, but that's not the case. You can be very polite and have a strong frame. I think it actually makes you a better person overall and people around you benefit more.

Frame means doing things that you like to do, and that they are completely reasonable according to customs. Real world Examples:

1 Guy at a coffee place asks me to "watch" his laptop for 5 mins as he is taking a call, but I am ready to leave as I am getting hungry or have a minute The request is reasonable, and the dude is polite

No Frame Me: Say sure, and just wait 5 minutes for this random dude, but yet get resentful as I really need to go. Full Frame Me: Say, sorry man, I really have to go in two minutes, can you ask somebody else

Your response is both polite and do what you want.

2 Girl at a coffee place asks to plug the laptop as I am sitting near the socket/outlet. The Request is reasonable, but she does it in a bit annoying almost entitled manner

No Frame Me: Sure, there you go Full Frame Me: Pause for a second, look at her well, then say sure, (in a bit annoying way, as I didn't like her entitled tone), the plug the socket as it was a reasonable request, just her style sucked.

Result: She was much more polite when asking for the adaptor back. Made the world a bit better as hopefully she is a bit more polite with other people in other interactions

3 You made plans for going out with your friends, but they want to go eating at a spot you really don't like

No Frame Me: just tag along, and hate the dinner Full Frame Me: Say that I really don't like that place, and suggest something else. If your friends persist on going there, say "I think I will skip it, but I will meet you later at the bar".

Not rude, polite, but do only the things that you enjoy doing....

4 Met a girl at a bar. We text, and then suggest to meet up for drinks at a bar in the West Village. I am on my way there, but suddenly she wants to change the venue as some friends of her are at a different bar. I don't like this plan, as I think it is very important for the first dates to be one on one and not involve other people (that's a strong rule).

No Frame Me: Sure I will come along.... Full frame me: Hmm... I really want to stick to our original plan. I don't think it is a great idea to meet your friends before even getting to know each other. Let me know if you want to re-schedule to another day....

Result: she says, nooo... lets stick with the original plan. I was just suggesting it if you wanna go there...

My reply was both polite and very reasonable... ended up with a one on one date instead of messy group thing.

5 Homeless dude asks for money for feeding his kids/train fare/food/booze whatever else lame excuse... No Frame Me: Give some money *Full frame Me: Say sorry, I usually give my money to charities, or just say "I don't have any cash" and move on....

Result: Homeless dude doesn't buy more booze to kill his liver and you can use your money on what is better for you

Anyways, hopefully these real life examples are good.

Whenever evaluating a request, or a suggestion to do something you should consider these: 1. Is the request reasonable 2. Was the request done in a polite/respectful manner 3. Is it beneficial? Would you enjoy the activity, discussion, or whatever was suggested to you

More clear examples: Girl asks her to do your homework, but she has no intention on sleeping with you. Say no. There are no benefits to you doing something like this.

Boss asks the team to go out for drinks. You don't really want to go, but in this case you think that some outside interaction with co-workers and boss beneficial to your career. You go and do it, at least once, but if it become a regular thing you start declining them with a polite matter (saying I meeting my gf., or I have soccer, etc).

htbf · 2017-09-18T21:02:20+00:00

Walk down the street and trying to observe your own perception of life that moment.

Then, once you observed that, try and think of another emotional state you were in and how you used to perceive life. Now realize that everyone is in his own little bubble of perception. You can be just walking around happy and read to share your happiness. Maybe you will say "hi" to someone and they will answer with a smile. Maybe they'll ask you to go away. That's their frame. keeping frame means staying in your moment, your own perception of things, without questioning yourself when you don't like the reflection being sent to you.

Watch "Becoming Bond".

GreenPiller · 2017-09-18T22:13:29+00:00

Watch the movie Blue Valentine. It shows how a man can go from a charming guy in control (frame) to an emotional trainwreck(losing frame). https://heartiste.wordpress.com/2011/01/18/beta-valentine/amp/

batfish55 · 2017-09-18T22:22:38+00:00

Read, read, and then read some more. It took me a while to grasp the concept too.

[deleted] · 2017-09-19T02:15:12+00:00

I liken it to frame of mind. It might be easiest to show it by counter examples of breaking frame.

Ever feel someone being overbearing and manipulating you? All of a sudden you feel defensive and explaining yourself or apologizing for no reason? You feel defeated and submissive and like you are just part of "their show". They entered your frame, broke it, and then made you a part of theirs when they did that.

Holding frame is akin to not letting that happen to you.

damnbruhlmao · 2017-09-19T03:59:08+00:00

Here's some good, real life examples.

You're popular and you throw a party at your house. You're known as a player. You take a girl to your room and she knows it means she's getting fucked. She's entering your world. She's in your frame.

Conversely, you go to a get together. Its a bunch of SJWs drinking wine and eating cheese. You try to blast some music and get people to take shots of the bottle you brought. They tell you to chill out and opt for the low-impact bullshit. You don't take no for an answer. Two girls there want some excitement so they take shots with you. They get drunk and start saying "yea! lets turn up the music!" The betas realize their choice is to either look like low-energy losers, or step into your frame. They turn on the music and the get-together gets more rowdy. They are now entering your frame.

In summation, frame is who's world you're stepping into, or acquiescing to.

jm51 · 2017-09-19T14:40:29+00:00

I am having a hard time applying it to ALL areas of my life.

Then don't.

Start with small successes and build on them and do it easy. The whole point of self improvement is to have more fun in life is it not?

Dr9 · 2017-09-19T16:22:22+00:00

Be quiet, but not boring. Don't talk non-stop, but if there is a long lull in conversation mention a dream, a passion project, or maybe on a little research on cool vacation places. Be positive.

Don't talk about other people - focus on big ideas, your concrete goals - it should be apparent to her that you are a builder and master of your own destiny.

PantsonFire1234 · 2017-09-19T22:04:08+00:00

Frame is just how convicted you are with your opinions and beliefs. Generally there should be some pillars of certainty in a mans life. Himself, his goal etc. No matter what anyone says you should never waver from that line. The stronger your frame the less you bend to other peoples opinion and they bend to yours.

Ever made a statement in a group setting and one guy starts to second guess what you said? I'm sure once you buckled to the pressure of the spotlight. And another time you knew you said the good thing and the other person was wrong. So you stood by you words and the attack fizzled out. You felt better because you stood your ground.

That's frame. With women this relates to shit tests and standing your ground.

Title	For the love of God can someone please explain to an autistic more about frame?
Author	towaway123458
Upvotes	16
Comments	24
Date	September 18, 2017 6:46 PM UTC (8 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/askTRP
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/asktrp/comments/70x219/for_the_love_of_god_can_someone_please_explain_to/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/askTRP/for-the-love-of-god-can-someone-please-explain-to.114597 https://theredarchive.com/post/114597

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