Woman with a boyfriend volunteers to do a body shot at a bar with boss; gets boss fired

aharpole · 2013-10-12T20:03:18+00:00

Title is very much misleading. If you actually read the post, you'll find that the reason the boss was fired was because he made a move and there wasn't consent. Could the "no" have been more clear? It sure could have, but if the story happened as she said it did, it's reasonable to say a responsible person would have at least paused to confirm there was consent. As a boss (and the person who cofounded the company, no less) you need to be sensitive to the power dynamics at play, and being drunk doesn't give you a pass.

Even if there were clear consent, as a boss, you just shouldn't get involved with people who work under you. It's problematic for both parties involved.

sillymod · 2013-10-14T16:06:29+00:00

If you continue to post trash like this, you will be banned.

A woman was sexually assaulted, and you think the biggest victim here is the boss? What the fuck is wrong with you?

FlamingBearAttack · 2013-10-12T14:59:49+00:00

Liked this post from Hacker News: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6538547

I feel bad for Joe. What he did was not malicious. He is not an abuser or predator. He did a dumb thing. This story isn't about a rapist or someone who preys on women. It's about a drunk man who thought he was going to score. A man who was becoming increasingly physical with a woman who he was attracted to, and who invited him to do a body shot after he had grabbed her ass. For those who don't know what body shots are, that's when a girl lays down on the bar, lifts her shirt, and holds a lime in her mouth. The bartender pours tequila in her navel, and another party drinks it from her stomach, and then, using his mouth takes the lime she is holding in her mouth, which amounts to a kiss. It's unquestionably sexual. Here is a picture: http://pubcrawlba.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/body-s...

"Body shots" are not a normal thing Americans do at conferences. I say that not to judge, but to provide context. I've been to a lot of industry parties, with a lot of alcohol, and a lot of very drunk (or high) "party animals", and haven't seen this done. I think most people would associate it with those "Girls Gone Wild" ads that used to run. For the record, it's not normal or appropriate to exchange backrubs and forehead kisses with male coworkers either. I'm a bit shocked that she said such behavior with her coworkers was common. The reason this matters is that this is certain to confuse people about their relationship with you.

So this man, a drunk, sexual being, who was not holding someone against their will or being violent, kept testing his boundaries and not receiving any indication that he had crossed a line. In fact, it's perfectly reasonable to interpret that after sexually touching her, and she invited him to lick her body and take a lime from her lips, that she was very much into this. In fact, a reasonable person could make this interpretation while completely sober. Then, she never says she doesn't want the behavior, but instead she says he has a wife and kids. "Well, if that's the only thing stopping us, I have great news...I have permission from my wife!" he says.

This isn't placing blame. Don't reply telling me about victim blaming. It's a bad miscommunication. He needed to be less drunk, she needed to be more clear. Both of them made very poor decisions. The fact that she did body shots for complicated reasons while masking discomfort to fit in is not his problem. She wanted to look like she was into it, as she said, and she was successful in giving him this impression. He has no way of knowing this, and no way of knowing that the party girl laying on the bar secretly doesn't want him to partake. Regardless, this is stupid, juvenile behavior on his part, which he would not have done sober. He likely knows this and is deeply ashamed. I know many commenters here are probably less experienced when it comes to "hooking up" casually. To you, this all sounds straightforward. The vast majority of the sexually active population does not work in this straightforward way that you think - male and female. No man has ever touched the rear of any female by first asking bluntly, "Is it alright if I touch your butt?". No woman has ever told a man, "I would now like you to touch my butt." Yet, there is a non-negligible part of the population who likes to touch and be touched, and it isn't assault.

What happened here was all kinds of inappropriate, but it wasn't malicious. It's extremely inappropriate to vilify this man given the nature of the offense. And it's certainly not his fault that she became an alcoholic and got a DUI. That sounds like a cop-out to me. He's now been publicly named and shamed, which will be permanently on the internet and searchable for the rest of his life, because one night he had drunk wandering hands on a female who he thought was inviting the attention.

Edit: Whoa, wait just a minute here. We glossed over something fairly significant. "In recent months this year I’ve been arrested, charged with a DUI, involved in second intervention classes..." She got a DUI. She just threw that in there, non-chalantly. She operated a vehicle while intoxicated. Most who get a DUI don't get caught their first time, so she may have even developed a habit of it. Still, with the benefit of the doubt, even doing this once is very serious. There is a high risk that you can maim or kill innocent people while driving drunk. Why is this not a huge controversy, and why is anyone forgiving her? Because we all make mistakes, she was drunk, she's taken steps to get help with her problem, and so on? But here we are going to crucify someone who got too drunk and put his hands down her pants.

ZimbaZumba · 2013-10-12T15:13:10+00:00

People are dying in Africa.

jokersmild · 2013-10-14T20:03:46+00:00

I call bull... There was no point in the evening that she could have walked away? If the attention was undesired, why did she not tell hook m at the back rubbing stage? Why not tell him when he is putting his tongue in her mouth? How about when he grabbed her ass? How about when she wad being a total slut and letting him finger bang her in a bar full of people? She let it go too far of anything.

Closer to reality would be that she was flirting with her boss because its a good way to get promoted and other perks, and when it didn't work out for her she went to HR. Maybe her boyfriend found out about her whoring it up through their mutual acquaintance and she had to flip the script to save face. Remember that she got the job through her friends brother, so out might be likely that people talk and her name came up.

I'm sure that the boss in question has had quite a few corporate classes on sexual harassment and new when to stop, but she likely kept enticing him. Her boss said that him and his wife have an agreement... More than likely, she told him the same thing about her and her boyfriend (s).

Title	Woman with a boyfriend volunteers to do a body shot at a bar with boss; gets boss fired
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	0
Comments	26
Date	October 12, 2013 2:58 PM UTC (12 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/1oaj1v/woman_with_a_boyfriend_volunteers_to_do_a_body/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/woman-with-a-boyfriend-volunteers-to-do-a-body.1161473 https://theredarchive.com/post/1161473

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