Because I see this discussion probably every other day in some form or another in this sub..

This argument is as old as this community (older than this Reddit seduction group) and the answer is simple (yeah right.). Read this in it's entirety. I know some of you are already dogmatic about how you feel but read this entire post and you may discover ideas people haven't discussed.

You're going to find a lot of guys especially these days telling you, "just go direct bro and be genuine and be yourself." And then you'll find that many those guys really aren't having that much success anyway, unless they are extremely good-looking and exactly what most girls consider their type. Maybe they approached hundreds of girls and every once in a while have some of modicum of success. But "a blind hog gets an ear of corn every once in awhile" as my father used to say.

The truth is, that going direct is only going to work consistently for probably 10% of guys.

For any given guy, it's only going to work sporadically. It has a low percentage of success. But, it does work. It can work, in the right circumstances and under the right situations. But it's basically a numbers game, it's like playing the lottery. It's a complete crap shoot.

Indirect can work too but it takes a lot of training and honing the skills to get it right, and even so, girls still may not like you. so you can have the best routine and indirect opener or situational opener on Earth, but if the girl is just not interested in you, she pretty much is going to know what you want anyway, despite what are the experts tell you how you're sneaking up on her and trying to catch her off guard and make her want you. No, most girls know on some level exactly what you want when you're going up and talking to them so the indirect is just a way to display your personality, not a way to try and sneak in under the radar and trick her into chasing you.

Which one is better?

The answer is, neither.

It's not a linear game. The best guys in this game learn to be dynamic individuals. Flexible. They flow.

What's that shit Bruce Lee said? "Be like water making its way through cracks. Do not be assertive, but adjust to the object, and you shall find a way around or through it. *If nothing within you stays rigid*, outward things will disclose themselves.

Empty your mind, be formless. Shapeless, like water. If you put water into a cup, it becomes the cup. You put water into a bottle and it becomes the bottle. You put it in a teapot, it becomes the teapot. Now, water can flow or it can crash! Be water, my friend."

Sometimes direct is better, depending on the situation and the circumstances that you find yourself in. If I'm walking down the street, and I see a girl I like in a busy City, and I don't have time, and she doesn't have time, then it naturally makes sense for me to go direct. Let's get it going and see what happens! "Haha, hell no.. I just saw you and if I didn't come say hi, and try and get to know you, I was going to kick myself in the ass for the rest of the day."

Plusses: Grabbing your balls and putting yourself out there. That is good for learning a little bit about how to face that pressure of approaching and getting rejected and even once in a while getting success.

Minuses: You do get rejected more often than not, and, you don't really learn a lot. The only opportunity to learn from a direct approach is when the girl likes you, and you can take things further.

Other times, if I'm walking through a Whole Foods, or a Trader Joe's, and I go up and I want to talk to a girl, it's not going to make any sense at all and it's going to come across socially awkward, uncalibrated and weird or even creepy if I go up and I'm super direct with a girl.

So in a situation like that, I may want a little bit more finesse based game. "My mom wants me to eat more spinach, which one do you recommend?"

Again, I don't care what any of the gurus or experts tell you, she already knows what you want. There's the old Dave Chappelle joke that is actually more truthful than a joke and that is, just assume that if a guy is talking to you he's saying, "want some dick?"

But, what going indirect is going to give you an opportunity to do is be more playful, learn, and take the social pressure off of her by giving her Social Cover Social Cover is taking the pressure off of her so that she can actually feel comfortable enough in specific situations, so that she can allow herself to get to know you. an example might be, how I was at the political function once, and there was this really cute girl at the table with me, and we ended up at my house within the next week naked and naughty.

If I would have gone direct, in a political function, now I'm a f****** weirdo and I'm socially awkward and probably there's mental issues as far as she's concerned. So instead, I go indirect, we already know what I want. We end up following up later with each other, setting up the date, and things go well. and, she didn't have to feel like a slut, because the people around her would overhear me going direct asking her out, and she saying yes in front of her peers, workmates etc. So, that gave her an opportunity to accept going out with me, while flying completely under the radar.

Plusses: Learn how to be more finesse based in your interactions, interactions are likely to last longer, so you can learn, be playful, and actually have a longer experience with the woman and the interaction so you can better hone your skills, try new things, and experiment. Also, in situations where it makes sense, you are giving her Social Cover so that she can better get to know you and she can see your personality shine.

Minuses: Many guys will use indirect as a way to never pull the trigger. In fact, for some, will become an excuse for them to talk to the girl, and never express intent, and one can get caught in cycles of talking to girls for long periods of time and leaving the interaction and being the chatty nice guy. At some point you will have to shift gears and go direct in the interaction.

On Social Cover: This is the key. Going direct or indirect, it has nothing to do with being an alpha male, or being a pussy, or being a real man, honest, genuine and making your intentions known and yada yada yada. None of that is relevant when it comes to seduction. Girls don't give a f. Guys do, yeah some keyboard jockey who wrote a book on the internet will care because to him and his ego, "being a real man" is a big deal, but to the girls, no. Showing social savviness is all she's going to care about. *Is she attracted to you? Is she not attracted to you? How you go about it, she doesn't give 2fux.

Let's continue...

So when I used to do boot camps, before I just started mentoring guys which seems more effective in the long run anyway, I would have my students always start out going direct.

For their first 10-20-30 sets or whatever it is, I would make them only go direct. Why? Because I wanted them to get over that fear that they had of going and expressing interest to a girl. And that's what direct is super handy for as far as learning. one can use it to get over their fear, their Hang-Ups about approaching socially, their approach anxiety or whatever you guys call it these days.. they can acclimate themselves to being under pressure and uncomfortable doing approaches. But after a while, once you're over that, now you're just spinning your wheels and you're not progressing and you're not getting better and you're not learning. You're NOT becoming more attractive.

You're just playing a numbers game. At that point, you're just being lazy. You're throwing away the opportunity to learn to be creative, dynamic, and to be able to flow and be seductive in different situations.

After that, however, I would give them indirect openers to start trying. Why? because I expressed above, it creates a more playful and finesse the based mindset, and it actually causes someone to become more creative in their mind, attitudes and actions so that they can adapt and adjust to situations much better in interactions over the Long haul.

I hope you're getting the picture. Basically there is no better than. And there is, Jeet kune do.

Bruce Lee's idea is basically, what mixed martial arts has become today. Who is better? The wrestler or the striker? The guy with this style, or that style? Well, the answer to that is, usually the guy who has a fantastic working knowledge of all. And that's your answer here.

Use them both appropriately for what they are for, and learn in your experience what situations are going to be better off with you using direct, and what situations are going to make more sense for you going indirect, and most importantly - how to be flexible with your game and when to shift gears.

Girl at a nightclub on the dance floor shaking her ass? Probably direct why not?

Girl at a networking event where people are dressed in suits and ties and women are dressed in nice dresses, horderves are being passed around, people are sipping wine and fancy cocktails, you're probably not going to go direct or you're going to come across like a f****** weirdo. So, now you can go indirect and display to her that you're a sexy, attractive, socially calibrated guy, and you can show up and utilize your finesse based game.

By the way, my two examples of openers from above in my breakdowns, those both ended up in situations where I was naked with the girls so go figure.

I hope this makes sense. my only word of warning is if you find a guy who's dogmatic about either one, and says that only "be genuine, only go up and be yourself, just be honest with the girl, just go direct, bro, you don't need all that pick up stuff!" That guy is likely full of shit. Either that, or, he just happens to be that really good looking guy that girl's find attractive and so his experience is extremely limited for the average guy.

On the flip side, if you got that guy who says, only indirect works, only use routine based game, only develop a routine stack and you only need to be a social robot and go out and be like this a weird creepy pick up guy that only uses pick up routines, and is never actually learning how to be himself, that is bad too. Because even if that guy is pretty decent at getting women, he's usually really creepy, weird, socially awkward, and has mental or emotional issues from always believing that he's not good enough to get a girl on his own.

So, if there was a tldr I would say one word: HYBRID

The BEST interactions are usually a combination of both.

Good luck.