Men, as a group, don’t seem to care about other men. We’re the first ones to tear each other down, dismiss each other’s struggles, or perpetuate toxic cycles that harm us all. Think about the harsh societal expectations placed on men. We’re told to always be tough, to suppress emotions, to provide without complaint, and to never show vulnerability. But whenever someone critiques these toxic standards, who rushes in to defend and reinforce them? Other men. Instead of questioning why we’re told to “man up” or why expressing emotions is seen as weak, we attack the person pointing it out, doubling down on these harmful norms. It’s like we’re our own worst enemy.
Men complain about women’s history Month or pride month, and say “Men’s Day?” It exists, International Men’s Day exists (November 19), yet men do nothing for it. There are no events, no advocacy, no awareness being raised. Men are quick to complain about other groups uplifting themselves but completely unwilling to do the same for men. Instead of taking action, we sit around bitterly pointing fingers at others who are doing the work we refuse to do.
Male abuse, sexual assault, and rape victims are often downplayed, but it’s almost always other men downplaying it. If a man is abused by a woman, his trauma is mocked or dismissed. He’ll get called a degrading insults because he couldn’t defend himself against a woman, instead of genuine support. To make it worse, adult men glorify female predators who sexually assault adolescent/teenage boys, treating it as some twisted accomplishment instead of what it really is—abuse. Men usually teach young boys that this sort behavior is okay, and that any sort of sexual attention from adult women should be welcomed. And if they don’t like it, they’re perceived as gay. We perpetuate harmful ideas about consent and shame men for being vulnerable or speaking out about their pain.
When men seek therapy, open up about mental health, or show fear, they’re labeled as weak or mocked outright. From a young age, boys are taught that being “manly” means dominating others, being aggressive, and avoiding anything deemed “feminine.” Who teaches this? Men. We shame boys who cry, shame hobbies that aren’t traditionally masculine, and ostracize men who don’t conform. We’ve built this prison of hypermasculinity ourselves, and then we complain about being trapped in it.
So why do we sabotage our own well being? Why do we expect others—women, or society at large—to fix issues we refuse to address ourselves? Self advocacy is the key to progress, but instead of taking action, we undermine the efforts of those who try to help. If men really cared about men, we’d be dismantling toxic masculinity, uplifting male victims, celebrating each other’s successes, and fighting for our collective well being. Until we start doing that, we can’t expect others to care about us when we clearly don’t care about ourselves.
[–]ooa3603 8 points9 points10 points (3 children) | Copy Link
Patriarchy was a paradigm created for rich men to hold most of the power.
Rich men dangle the carrot of their version of male success onto poorer/less powerful men:
Just outside of reach of the average man to aspire to.
But the thing is, it's not possible for the vast majority of average men to become rich and powerful by exceptional traits, birth or luck because by definition an average man will only have average traits, birth or luck.
Actually becoming the all-powerful man that patriarchy mandates can ONLY be a rare occurrence.
A few men do "succeed." Some due to exceptional traits, some due to birth, most by sheer luck. But it is always only a relative few. And the thing is they are only appearing to succeed, because in trying to live up to this they usually alienate most of their friends and family because of their abusive and exploitative world outlook.
And so, when a young boy growing up to be a man comes crashing into this brutal reality he can:
Keep trying in a mostly-futile bid for this measure of success. And some do manage it. But all who keep trying usually find that it is a hollow victory. However, they feel that they have spent to much of their time, money, energy, their life towards this deceptive goal and so they can't let it all be for nothing. So they still perpetuate and police the paradigm on other men because of sunk cost fallacy and identity politics.
Kill himself. Which is why male suicide rates are so high.
Realize that it was always a deceptive carrot and instead try to build his own version of success based on what he actually values and likes to do. He may or may not end up monetarily wealthy or famous/powerful, but that was never his focus so he never feels like he's not good enough to be a man for anyone else and more importantly himself. These guys actually end up happy.
I recommend option number 3.
And furthermore, tell your friends and other men that it is even an option, because many don't make the realization.
It may not stick though. Some people (men and women) would rather choose the beautiful-looking lie than the uncomfortable reality. But at least if we tell each other that their is another option, more men will choose it.
[–]Soft-Neat8117 0 points1 point2 points (2 children) | Copy Link
My question is, how can you be happy without wealth and fame?
Friends? I have none and lack the traits required to have them. I'm likely autistic or a narcissist, won't know for sure until I get tested in April.
Family? I don't like my family (except for one cousin and even he's hanging on by a thread after I found out he voted for Trump) and never will. So what's left?
[–]ooa3603 4 points5 points6 points (1 child) | Copy Link
There are so many ways to be happy without wealth and fame. Happiness and fulfillment is a result of having the autonomy and resources to do the things you enjoy and come naturally to you.
Simply put, it's being able to fulfill your core drives and do thing you like. And then doing them, or working towards doing them.
Almost everyone has these core drives. Maybe it's creating things (craftsmanship), maybe it's helping others (nurturing), maybe its organizing things, maybe its pushing your body (athletics).
Most of the time, its people have 1 or 2 really important core drives and then varying amounts of other motivations.
For example, my core drive is curiosity and the pursuit of knowledge. But I also love physical activity and exploring new places.
I've built my job and my hobbies around these simple facts about myself. At my job I am learning about new things, applying the new knowledge and teaching others. Outside of work, I am constantly playing soccer and visit new towns and cities.
As a result I am happy and the wealth and fame I do not have does not matter to me.
Navigating life is about using learned skills. Your traits are just characteristics that can help you acquire these skills, not having certain traits means you'll have to work harder at acquiring the skills they help develop,nAnd while autism and/or narcissism are barriers to learning these social skills, it is not impossible. You may lack the traits that make forming relationships easier. But that doesn't mean you can't still learn the skills.
Just the fact that you were able to form a coherent response to my post means you have enough of the necessary skills to figure out how to learn the social skills you don't have. You can intake information and process it. Social skills are just a special type of information. Normal people are born with a lot of these skills built in, but if you didn't, it just means you have to do it manually rather than depend on built in "equipment." You can work with a professional to help you learn how to learn these social skills.
Even if you were neurodivergent (you don't know that yet and it your diagnosis may show that you aren't) it's not a death sentence on a social skills. It means you'll have to work differently at acquiring the skills required for these relationships.
I have first hand experience with this because I have co-morbid ADHD and on the spectrum.
You don't have to. Create your own with like minded people. I did the same.
What's left?
[–]Soft-Neat8117 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
There's nothing I enjoy doing. Even the things I used to enjoy do nothing for me. Eating unhealthy foods is the only thing that gives me something close.
And before you say it, yes I'm in therapy and am on antidepressants. Neither are helping.
[–]PutsWomenOnPedestal 6 points7 points8 points (2 children) | Copy Link
Great post. Although some of what you wrote is American culture specific. Men crying is not frowned upon in many cultures.
There was sitcom starring George Lopez where one of the episodes deals with his very issue. His wife is aghast at her husband’s attitude towards the prospect of their teen son drawing the attention of an adult woman. It was hilarious and sobering at the same time.
[–]Soft-Neat8117 7 points8 points9 points (1 child) | Copy Link
Yeah, I saw that episode. They heard that a sex offender moved into the neighborhood. All the residents were prepared to storm the sex offender's home and make them leave, until they found out she was a woman. Then, everyone (except George's wife) stopped caring. At least until their son was spotted at her house. It turns out that the son went on his own accord and was trying to get laid, but it made George realize the double standard between sex offenses based around gender.
[–]PutsWomenOnPedestal 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Yeah, that's the episode. I don't remember George realizing the double standard but I watched it a very long time ago.
[–]azucarleta 3 points4 points5 points (0 children) | Copy Link
So why do we sabotage our own well being?
Not to be glib, but it's the patriarchy.
Among other things the patriarchy did/does was delineate inheritance. First born son. This creates instant hierarchy beyond men over women, and immediately establishes a hierarchy of some men over most other men. Dad > First born son > other sons > daughters.
Men therefore out of a historical cultural tradition, peck at each other -- or worse -- in an implicit effort to move up the pecking order. Since there's always a chance your older bro meets his untimely death -- or turn out to be a witch, or gay or otherwise unfit!!! -- before he's old enough to inherit whatever Dad has to pass down. Now son #2 takes the top spot and son #1 is disenfranchised, divested.
Of course these rigid social structures have morphed and one might even say they have eroded. But we live with the legacy because we never intentionally sought out to undo these cultural norms.
[–]564800 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
So sad & so true. Thank you for sharing.
[–]Delicious-Level-86221 point [recovered] | Copy Link
ahh the classic male gaslighting, feminist dog whistling, removing accountability from women post