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Betas In Waiting

Rollo-Tomassi

March 24, 2015

17 upvotes

/r/MarriedRedPill

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Post Information

Title	Betas In Waiting
Author	Rollo-Tomassi
Upvotes	17
Comments	16
Date	March 24, 2015 11:58 PM UTC (11 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MarriedRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/marriedredpill/comments/30709q/betas_in_waiting/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MarriedRedPill/betas-in-waiting.202289 https://theredarchive.com/post/202289

Comments

[–]Rollo-TomassiMANOSPHERE ICON[S] 5 points6 points7 points 11 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link

One of the primary disconnects women are conditioned to believe during their Epiphany Phase is that a “good man” will be willing to forgive and forget her past indiscretions. On their journey of self-exploration and discovery women are encouraged to adopt a finely tuned cognitive dissonance with who they conveniently become and what should be the consequences of their pasts. While men are expected to live up to their responsibilities as men, and are expected to own up to the consequences of their failures, at the Epiphany Phase women are encouraged to convince themselves that they become someone else – someone who was “so different” from who she was in her Party Years.

Her husband feels “conned” because he was conned; conned after discovering the dual personality of his pre and post Epiphany Phase wife. What we’re expected to believe here (courtesy of the social conventions emplaced by the Feminine Imperative) is that her husband is some prudish, moralistic throwback unwilling to accept and embrace the “real” her – the one who was trying to “get it right” by turning over a new leaf with him. This is the easy, ready-to-use shame that women have available to them; if a man becomes indignant over a woman’s sexual past it translates into his insecurities as a man. His feeling conned over his bait & switch marriage is redirected to being his problem.

[–]BluepillProfessorMarried-MRP MODERATOR2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago* (3 children) | Copy Link

I thought this one was especially hard hitting.

it’s the freedom and genuine desire with which their wives had sex with prior (Alpha) lovers; desire that wasn’t based on material provisioning, emotional investment or the logistical hoops women expect their post-Epiphany “good men” to perform to in order to merit their sexual and intimate attentions. That’s the disconnect, that’s the con; Alpha Bad Boys get her 3-Way genuine sexual abandon with no investment expected, while he’s got to maintain ‘multiple businesses’ in order to get a prosaic sexual experience with her. The Bad Boys got her sexual best for free, while he’s expected to accept her as the ‘new’ post-Epiphany her…

Rollo, you should post this for the Betas on MMSL. There are no Betas in waiting on MRP: We are Alpha's in training.

If you haven't got your wife's best yet it's not because she gave it away to all those other guys. It's because you have not taken it like all those other guys.

[–]phoenix_mdMarried Man -MRP APPROVED0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Dot8070 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]phoenix_mdMarried Man -MRP APPROVED0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]TheGreasyPoleMarried- MRP APPROVED4 points5 points6 points 11 years ago* (8 children) | Copy Link

BPP's comment identified what I think is the real bitter kick in this story.

If she was prepared to behave with him, the beta husband, the way she behaved in her CC past there wouldn't really be a problem here. He'd be getting all he ever wanted, and a few guys 15 years ago would have been a shock but not a marriage ending deal. The thing that killed the marriage was not "what she did back then" but the realization he had that "she never thought of him the same way and provided those benefits to him".

It's ok to discover your wife can be sexually available and sexually adventurous.....AS LONG AS she's like that with you. If she isn't, I can understand what a massive blow to his psyche that could be.

However, the fact is, due to biology, due to ignorance about the real state of affairs, due to the power they hold in the relationship most women are just physically unable to act the same way with a heavily beta husband as they did in their old CC life with the AF's.

Even if they want to do it, they just can't.... the dopamine hormonal rush that made the wild sex seem so "exciting" and "dangerous" and "fun" back then just isn't there with the beta husband. They can go through the motions, but they can't fake the real desire they have for AF's.

It's why so many women discovering TRP or RPW (with a BP husband) find the way out so difficult. It really IS the man that must change. They get trapped as they now understand just how and why they need their man to change in order to have a genuinely fulfilling relationship... But changing others is difficult. If not extremely difficult when the change you want is an increase in alpha and you're entire toolkit for getting that is submissive behaviour.

As I read it... the problem here isn't the distant past.... the problem here is hubby isn't getting access to the marriage he thought he would get. To the sexually exciting and available woman he now realises DOES exist in his wife, but is not being made available to him.

It's one thing to think "Her sex drive is low, and thats why we don't have the sex I think is healthy" .... It's another to realise "Her sex drive is fine, the reason we don't have the sex is she settled for me and just cannot act sexually with me the way she did with those men as I don't excite her. It's in her. But I can't access it". That shit must feel like a marriage death blow.

Personally, I'd advise the guy the standard "Own your own shit, bro" this is your mess, you now know whats up, it's up to you to turn it around. Bailing is an option, but bailing is an option you can only honourably explore once you fully understand your situation, have made an honest attempt to rectify your mistakes (someone send him a link to TRP) and have concluded that it is not recoverable even with you making honest attempts to rectify.

The problem here is the mans, not the wifes. He can have his sexually available, sexually experimental wife .... Just as soon as he makes himself the man he has to be to unlock her potential in this area. There is actually no problem with what she is doing/done. She actually, genuinely, didn't know any better and was just following (unconsciously) a very successful strategy.

He now needs to realise what that strategy is, and cut his cloth accordingly.

I am a strong believer that unless you have a severe physical deformity or drawback most men, with the proper application of effort on self-improvement, can become relatively high alpha men.

So long as the RP movement remains so small, anyone with access to it's information can make themselves a "top 20%" man. Even those dealt a below average genetic hand. Those dealt average hands can probably reach the top 10% with application. Those dealt an above average hand can reach the 5% or even 1% level with the right application.

This will change if RP ever becomes mainstream.... the beta's are stuck then, when the majority of the natural "good genes" guys are consistently applying RP ... But right now there are so many BP men out there that any man, with the right application, can turn his situation around.

Not necessarily with his current wife... But either with her or without her.

[–]SepeanMRP APPROVED2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Yeah. The red pill reality is only bitter when you taste it with a blue pill tongue. As long as you hold on to your ideas about reasonable and honest behavior and how you should be rewarded for your efforts when those efforts were all applied in a direction that did not make her wet, the red pill is bitter. But once you internalize the red pill, women's sexual strategy is like the weather - cold and rain and snow is annoying, but you don't take it personal that you don't like freezing.

I do not for a second believe that RP will ever turn mainstream. The world is filled with obvious opportunities if you just apply yourself. Yet so few people do. RP requires both effort and insight, and you're going against mainstream culture too. It goes against two strong evolutionary survival strategies: energy conservation and social conformity.

[–]TheGreasyPoleMarried- MRP APPROVED1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Ah, but it's dynamite....

It's so useful, it's makes things so clear, it provides such a good base of understanding that ultimately I believe the hurdles you laid out will be overcome.

If RP wasn't so obviously useful I think you'd have a point... It's the utility of it that will eventually overcome the barriers against acceptance (at least among males).

Maybe in 10 years.... or 20 years.... or 50 years.... But eventually the truth will out. Information wants to be free. More an more of it will burst out into the mainstream over time, piece by piece. Eventually, it'll be as mainstream today as it was in 1915.

You can fool all of the people, some of the time. Or you can fool some of the people all of the time. You can't fool all of the people all of the time.

The mainstream grip is slipping. They're trying to fool all of the people all of the time and eventually even bitter truths will overcome that as long as they are truths.

[–]SepeanMRP APPROVED0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Maybe the knowledge will come out, but it won't change anything.

Take negotiation theory. You can explain people how it works, the psychological principles behind it, how they affect you, what to watch out, what impulses to ignore. And they still fold in actual negotiations, for absolutely no reason except their fears. Very few can put it into practice. When people are afraid to demand a better price from a stranger they'll never see again, how are they supposed to stand up to the bitchy wife at home?

And 1915 was red pill? I don't think people knew. I don't think they needed to know. Men were physically superior and women didn't have legal rights, and that was it, there was no need to hold frame or any of that. You could hit your wife, you could rape her. That's how it has been for all of human history. I am 100% against any sort of violence and I certainly don't want the old days to return, but I don't think evolution ever bothered to wire men to handle women socially. There was no need.

Even if the truth did become mainstream, most men would still get betamaxed by their wives. And everyone has hamsters; with all women and most men trying to justify their behavior, their hamsterized truth will be the mainstream. Maybe red pill will become a biological reality, but gaming women will then be looked upon as emotional abuse or morally wrong or something like that.

We'll always be fringe.

[–]UEMcGillMarried- MRP MODERATOR2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]TheGreasyPoleMarried- MRP APPROVED0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

I dunno about this. We're not privy to the conversations they had or didn't have around that time.

If he made clear this was a red line for him, and she lied by omission then you are right.

If she had good reason to believe he held this information to be important, even if it wasn't verbally discussed, you are right.

OTOH, if he was all "Hey hun, don't care about your past. Just care about you." at the time it was the kind of omission that was justifiable.

It's OK to play the game... and she's playing the game here... As long as you play fair. She might have been playing fair.

I wonder what HE omitted that SHE may have found relevant. His struggles with ED in the past ? A criminal background ? That girl that got pregnant, but lost the baby ? Who knows.

So, if he never intimated this was an important fact for him... She might have been reasonably justified in omitting it.

To use your CV metaphor... If I'm applying to work for the CIA the fact that (>3 jobs ago) I previously worked for "Socialist Workers Weekly" is a critical ommission... However, if I'm trying to get a job at the local chicken factory it's an omission on a CV I would be happy to make, just listing my last 3 jobs.

I wouldn't expect anyone to get bent out of shape over it or sack me because I didn't list job #4 or more (which I never do on CV's anyway)

It isn't a lie... It's just not information I thought was relevant, and no-one informed me otherwise.

I think any assessment that he was "right to do what he did" based on this omission really has to know the details.

However, I suspect thats not material... I suspect the REAL issue here is not what she did many years ago (and indeed many years before she met this guy) it's what that behaviour reveals about her sexual attraction to him.

If she was a wild girl for the alpha guys thats fine (within limits, a bit of fun once or twice is fine...10 years of ONS's is not) as long as she's a wild girl for you.

But if she was wild for them, you've been married 5 years, and you got sold the "I'll be wild for you" and received "Monthly duty sex in a grudging manner" that's what I would consider a much more direct stab to the heart of the relationship. A much more direct bait and switch. She isn't turned on by him in the same manner. That's a killer whatever happened with the omission or otherwise.

[–]Dot8070 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]TimeHo0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]UEMcGillMarried- MRP MODERATOR0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I do agree this is all supposition, and most likely a thought experiment posted by a redpiller. But here's my thinking for posterity:

Here's what I know about women from my past. I've dated saints, and I've dated whores. The thing about them, saint or whore, AWALT. They all lie by omission, as it's in a woman's nature, particularly if she thinks it will damage her standing with you. AWALT. I dated a girl in college, now you'd call her a plate. I was fucking her during exams to blow off steam, and knew she had a boyfriend. I did unspeakable things to her, knowing I didn't give a fuck what she thought and that she would never be girlfriend material. Well she went away for the weekend, and was with her boyfriend all weekend. While we were hooking up, it came out. Her answer was "I didn't say anything because I didn't want to upset you." Meanwhile I just had my cock in her ass. She didn't care about my feelings, what she cared about was what I thought of her in the context of our relationship. Even when I was treating her like a farm animal! My wife who by all accounts led me to believe she had a very low partner count, did the same shit. She was proud of her inexperience and portrayed it that way. Except it was more like, "Well it wasn't sex-sex. You know just a blow job". Fucking AWALT. It isn't really for our benefit, honestly. It's how they can compartmentalize and rationalize something they would totally trash another woman for. Lord knows I've heard it from women where one second they're like 'she's a slut, I can't believe she fucked him in his car on the first date'. Same girl fucked me on the first date, but we had "chemistry and it was in your apartment".

And to your comment about "did she play fair?", fucking-a-of course not. Hypergamy, AWALT, etc. women do not play fair. In fact they don't even play by the same rules. Remember, women have no sense of honor or loyalty. If this guy got sued lost all his businesses and then found out she like to play Chinese finger cuffs she'd be the first one to be like "yeah, it's probably not working out anyway."

So now when it comes back to the CV, the thing was this chick knew she was applying to the CIA, and treated it like the chicken farm. His fault was he didn't do background checks. I would bet the info was there. Of course he was disgusted by the vision of it, that's just another side of the same coin.

Add on top of it, like you said, she's probably got him on duty sex, or weekly, and ding it dawns on him. I was duped.

[–]strategos_autokratorMan, Married, Mod1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]phoenix_mdMarried Man -MRP APPROVED1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

Great blog post. I think the reddit post you referenced was faked (likely written by a guy; too succinct and not nearly enough emotion intertwined within her supposed grief), but certainly the scenario has played out countless times before.

One thing hit me after reading your blog post. While I think feminism is to blame for all this mess, Alpha men have played a huge role to push the agenda.

Prior to contraceptives women were still highly attracted to alphas, yet alphas had only the options of 1) living outside the societal norm by having extra-marital sex, 2) get married young and have sex galore but with only one women, or 3) refusing both sex and marriage to further a career and later become married to a higher value woman, now available due to his financial success. Beta options were limited to numbers 2 & 3 and so society was rather homogeneous and stable.

Once contraceptives became available alphas could now demand sex from young women who no longer could refuse to give away their highest commodity (ie. Sex/their virginity) since the threat of becoming pregnant was no longer an issue. Subsequently women bowed to the pressure for sex and instead embraced it as something highly desirable for its own sake (vs for baby making and husband retaining). Feminism, in an honest effort to protect women now that their negotiating power was greatly diminished, responded by encouraging women to become independent of men through the pursuit of a college education and career. In the meantime women satisfied their sexual nature by engaging the alphas around them and indulging the alphas demands for the most carnal acts of sex imaginable.

As these women grow older and feel the burdens of a career and the growing lack of alphas available to them they have their Epiphany and scrabble to find a willing Beta to marry. She hides her sexual past in part because she has come to appreciate how degrading those sexual experiences were outside of a marriage. Furthermore, she understands a high value beta man expects to be the only man to have those experiences with her. She also realizes she will never be as attracted to their beta husband as she was to those previous alphas yet she wisely chooses valuing security over intimacy.

So who are winners in today's sexual dynamic? Natural alphas get the high level sex they want but (often) miss out on the financial success of their beta counterparts and also miss out on the higher levels of companionship a lifelong marriage offers. Natural betas get no sex in their younger years and starfish sex in their older years along with the possibility of discovering his wife was a whore, yet can enjoy the financial success they have worked for over a lifetime and sincere companionship (but not good sex) with his wife in her later years. Women enjoy high level sex during their pre-wall years but later find themselves in a secure but lackluster marriage devoid of sexual excitement while also facing the burdens of career. Each group fails to achieve the trifecta of sexual, financial, and relationship fulfillment.

How then can someone enjoy sexual, financial, and relationship success in their life? I find no other way than to be get married at a young age, with both parties as virgins and behaving in traditional gender roles.

Rollo, I'd love to hear your thoughts on all this.

[I made lots of corrections and edits within the first hour I posted]