What to do when LTR can't handle dread?

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redpill_ltr-friendly
September 16, 2018
17 upvotes
askMRP

I secured my LTR after discovering the red pill. As such, I entered that relationship in a way where I had pretty much all the power in the relationship.

The problem is that she was anxious as fuck. Constantly comfort-seeking. She never shit-tested. She never got angry at me. She only got sad, upset, hurt, insecure and more neurotic. That is obviously not a fun person to live with.

As I reduced dread, while maintaining an outcome-independent frame, the relationship improved and I actually enjoyed being around her again.

However, occasionally, she becomes less compliant, more lazy, works out less, does less sexual favors, etc..

What do you do when your LTR can't seem to handle dread? When the dread isn't translating into increased sexual desire but is instead translating into neuroticism, anxiety, and depression.

Are there different types of dread you use in this situation?


Post Information
Title What to do when LTR can't handle dread?
Author redpill_ltr-friendly
Upvotes 17
Comments 28
Date 16 September 2018 01:10 AM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit askMRP
Link https://theredarchive.com/post/204014
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/askMRP/comments/9g6ot4/what_to_do_when_ltr_cant_handle_dread/
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dread gameframelong term relationshipshit testthe red pill
Comments

[–]BobbyPeruRed Beret12 points13 points  (4 children) | Copy

As I reduced dread, while maintaining an outcome-independent frame, the relationship improved and I actually enjoyed being around her again.

You need to be more specific here. How exactly did you “reduce dread?” You should only be practicing passive dread, and it should never stop. My gut feeling is you are misunderstanding dread.

[–]redpill_ltr-friendly[S] 2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy

Thanks for your on-point question.

​

I reduced dread in a number of ways:

1) Learned to control myself and ensure that she orgasmd, so she wouldn't be all frustrated and needy all the time.

2) Stopped talking openly about how attractive I found other women

3) Stopped being so cool and distant. Allowed our discussions to be more than barroom banger, including our perspectives on and emotional reactions to people and events in our lives.

4) Stopped forcing my dick in her mouth, after she talked about throat trauma (see below; not all fellatio has ceased)

​

Ways I did NOT reduce dread:

1) Continued to work out and hang with my boys, even though she doesn't really like my friends, and my working out and getting bigger muscles and a nicer body "makes her anxious" about why I'm doing it. (I just ignored that expressed concern; I guess I could have told her that I want her to get anxious and get a fitter body too, but I don't want it to be seen as an attempt to manipulate her; I want her to want to get fitter).

2) Continued with outcome independence, calling her out whenever she does behavior I don't like. Rewarding her for good behavior with cocky/funny attitude. Stay focused on my mission, my small business, on living where I want to live. I set my own schedule. I lead my life, and she i allowed to do what she wants as long as it doesn't interfere with what I'm doing. I don't emotionally unload on her or complain or show a lack of direction.

3) Do not express affection and love ever out of a desire to appease or to hear it back. Only when there's a good feeling rising up that's a result of something positive she's just done.

4) Made the covert contract explicit, in a playfully AM way, explaining that I give oral sex, and I expect oral sex. Implied was that I understand she has throat trauma issues (from being choked/grabbed by the throat by her stepfather as a child; just once, but in a dramatic fashion) but she needs to figure out a way to get over them. She is hot for my body, and so the frequency of fellatio is acceptable. However, it's not as long in duration as I would like (first world problems, I know). I used to always just force her on my dick, but then she would talk in tears later about how it brought up this intense fear for her. So now, it's hard for me to know the line between commanding her to suck it, asking to suck it in a strong frame, and asking her to suck it in a weak frame (which I sometimes admittedly do). And then when she gives up early, what do I do? I just let it go usually.

5) She is constantly telling me how impressed she is with the way I handle my business and life. She is constantly horny for me and loves to take it doggy style. Loves the dildo and/or the dick in her ass. Loves to be spanked, hair pulled, all of it. She recently asked about if we could start to experiment with some "bondage play, without sex at first, just I'd like to see what it feels like to be tied up." Which I am planning to make good on soon.

​

Ways I know I could improve:

1) I could lift harder and get bigger. Currently, my back goes into spasms when I lift too hard, which I'm going to see a physio about...

2) I could slap her on the ass and pull her hair more in day-to-day life, asserting more dominance, and bringing a sexual charge into normal interactions, which would parlay my dominance from the bedroom into real life.

3) I could assert more control of her and her actions in daily life, telling her what to do and telling her she needs to earn more money. She has been doing a lot of the cooking and housekeeping as she is between major income sources, and hardly brings anything financial into the house, apart from just making her share of the rent.

​

Other ideas?

As you can see, all is not lost on this one. I'm not ready for a branch swing, at all. It's not a dead bedroom. Just trying to figure out if anyone here has ideas for amping the pace a bit without resorting to scorched-earth dread tactics.

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[–]BobbyPeruRed Beret9 points10 points  (2 children) | Copy

All of your ways you stated as reducing dread are active dread. Active dread is weak and not recommended. I find that dread is one of the most misunderstood concepts in MRP. A big part of the problem is it’s name, “dread.” Guys assume they intuitively know what “dread” is based on the definition of dread. However, “dread” as a MRP term and “dread” the definition are 2 very different concepts.

Stick to passive dread, and do the levels thoroughly. You can always improve on them. They are passive dread because they are actions taken to make yourself more attractive, and you don’t have to do thngs like you listed above. The reason why she is starting to back off is because active dread only works for so long before she realizes your BS. She is not stupid and has realized and figured out your BS.

Here are the official levels.

Dread Levels

[–]redpill_ltr-friendly[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

[Edit: Sorry for the long comment reply. Working this shit through as I type]

Thanks for your considered comment. I agree and understand that active dread is no longer called for.

In regards to the levels of dread, none of them seem to be bang on for me. 1,2,3 - yes, I've got a clear grip of my life, plan, and mission, enough at least for what we're detailing her.

Levels 4-8 are what make her increasingly anxious and neurotic. This idea that I'm on the prowl and looking for other women and capable of pulling them in, and toying with the idea. It upsets her, but not in the way that leads to increased awesomeness in the bedroom.

She already desires me physically. When I dread her, as in 4-8, demonstrating my capability for securing other women, and my intolerance for anyone who doesn't meet my standards, that's when she gets anxious about me not liking her body enough. She feels that maybe I think she's unattractive. Rather than actually DOING something about it, she loses her confidence and withdraws; becomes less playful, outgoing and giving in bed... I find that she has better results in life (fitter, happier, more giving, more proactive) when she is in a good groove and not feeling anxious.

I think that maybe it's not dread that I actually want. I just got tipped off to the "Dancing Monkey" post (http://archive.fo/Ok263), and had a big aha moment. My becoming a better person, finding my connection with life, a plan, a mission, being good at PUA skills, being attractive, having standards, getting big muscles, etc... none of this will force her to be attracted to me. I.e., I cannot operate according to a covert contract and simply believe that by lifting heavier, being more mission-driven, being more outcome independent, all of this me-centered stuff, will necessitate her wanting to do anything to please me.

Perhaps "wanting to do anything to please a man" type of behavior is a sort of desperate move by someone who is very scared their man is going to leave at any minute; and perhaps it is unsustainable (or just very unpleasant to be around) for any long period of time (e.g., years) and/or for certain personality types (e.g., with women who have volatile levels of self esteem)

I think what all of this is leading me to is actually Dread Level 6: Game Your Wife. I guess I want to study more "Game Your Wife Material"

My progression path was, like many: PUA (The Game, Mystery Method, Other PUA ideas), then RedPill. I think, possibly, it may be time to come back around to PUA-type approach, just modified for an LTR.

Sex-God Method was helpful in identifying some of the ways to turn a longer term sex-partner into, basically, a sex-slave.

I realize/remember as I write this, that I am not looking to sexually enslave my girl or enact mental manipulation on her in order to exact sexual favors, as per the Sex God Method. But I think perhaps I can take some of the ideas from there and run with them. Any recommendations for similar books on how to successfully sexually game an LTR, especially in order to get her ass back in the gym consistently!??

[–]BobbyPeruRed Beret1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I think what all of this is leading me to is actually Dread Level 6: Game Your Wife. I guess I want to study more "Game Your Wife Material"

Yes , you should always be gaming. Find out what works for you by practicing. It should be fun for you as well as her .

As far as dread, it’s only part of the equation. You should always have a certain amount of dread. It takes a while to learn to balance it. My experience with level 7 is you only need to do it occasionally. Too much hamster is as bad as too little.

There is no simple answer. It’s a bunch of things that you learn from the sidebar, reading and posting on here, and practicing.

[–]Rian_StoneMod / Red Beret15 points16 points  (3 children) | Copy

deleted What is this?

[–]redpill_ltr-friendly[S] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

"branch swing with an olive branch"

What do you mean?

[–]SgtSilverBack8 points9 points  (1 child) | Copy

He means something along the lines of you have the ability to get what you want from other women, she has the opportunity to stop that from happening by being what you so you don't have to look elsewhere.

Your ability=branch swing

Her opportunity= olive branch

[–]Rian_StoneMod / Red Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

deleted What is this?

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy

So , when you were single and knowledgeable about rp, why did one lone single ltr plate win the prize?

Plating is a vetting process... and if you didn't vet properly then why be surprised.

If the issue really is her and not you... then next her and pick better .

[–]redpill_ltr-friendly[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Thanks for this question. I'll take it as an honest one and not a jab.

I was RP aware for several years before giving the prize to this one. I met her at the beginning of the journey, deemed her potential LTR material, and did not pursue physicality with her for years, even though she was clearly willing.

During that time I slept with about 3-4 girls each year, which suited my lifestyle, my age-group, my pickiness, etc. I was happy with that number. I also kept in touch with this girl in a flirty way. And eventually we did make it physical and engaged in non-monogamous physicality for about a year and a half.

Over time, I realized that I really enjoyed relating to her. That her views on life were nuanced and well matched with mine, in terms of the level of analysis she was capable of making, and the types of conclusions she was coming to. Her perpsectives helped clarify my understandings and vice versa. She helped advise me on my business ventures and on personal growth endeavors and I did the same.

We enjoyed catching up on each other's days and lives.

This was always a little true with my other plates as well. I usually only ever had sex with women who I actually liked as people on some level, which explains the relatively low N count per year, but which also explains why I am still legitimately friends with several of those women (and FB friend with even more).

And after several years of playing the field, in the midst of a very good plate deal with a 10-year younger woman, I decided to invite this LTR-prospect out to live near me, because quite honestly I liked her a lot and I was a bit lonely for good company.

She's not a unicorn. She has step-dad issues. Sexual abuse history. She has SJW tendencies and feminist leanings. She is overly concerned about word usage and gender sensitivity. She's skeptical about some of the clearly scientifically grounded differences between man and woman. She gets anxious and insecure.

But I (mostly) enjoy being around her. And when I dont, I leave the house for a bit. She is a great cook. She is a great fuck. A really great fuck. We just started doing bondage (after my last post) and she's a great bottom. She is hot. Not as hot as I know she could be. She could still stand to lose some weight, but she is good looking. And kind. And she yields to me as her leader. She put up with me being no-monogamous for a year and a half. I finally suggested we make it monogamous because I didn't want her to be so anxious, and I like the security of knowing we have that agreement in place.

We are making a nice life together. We have our own place, are supporting each other in our respective businesses, in our respective relationships with our family members, in our respective personal growth paths.

The issue isn't with her or me. It's not really an issue that I wrote the post about. It's more that I was looking for advice and support on how to optimize a situation. That is, how do I get her to do something, like get more fit, when she is already not in terrible shape. Dread doesn't seem to be working.

Due to some PMs I got, I think i have a clearer view on how to do this now. Nexting is not the solution I was looking for.

Thanks for the question.

[–]jacksarmy2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

You could break up with her

[–]BluepillProfessorMod / Red Beret2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

If she is putting out there is no need for dread above level 5- active dread is only for women playing hide the vagina.

Being in shape, dressing up, keeping busy, having a plan and being a good captain is all that is needed. This is passive and is part of being a whole actualized person that is attractive. Despite what they tell us it is not supposed to be hard.

I have found comfort tests are easy- to pass if you really care but very difficult if you dont.I

If you care show her. How would you comfort a 9 year old who is whining for.attention? Baby talk is optional but they love it, if you mean it. If you don't they hate it because they know.

[–]redpill_ltr-friendly[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Thanks BluePillProfessor for this feedback.

My woman is definitely not playing hide the vagina, and so active dread has shown itself to be a terrible way to encourage good workout habits. It's not that she's in terrible shape. She's in good shape. I'm just looking at how to help her get in optimal shape. And ramping up dread doesn't seem to be the path...

I agree very much about comfort tests being easy to pass if you care but difficult if you don't.

This is why I had to really calibrate my IDGAF attitude. I had cultivated an attitude of not caring about her, which drove her crazy and insecure.

It is a whole different thing to care about someone, and to not care about their opinion of you. To have outcome independence, and be confident in yourself and the rightness of your perspective, and still be empathetic and compassionate to pain in others, to still appreciate them and want good and do good for them.

[edit: this is what I'm working on now. And using this perspective to directly encourage good habits; rather than using active dread to try and get her to do what I want. When you're higher value, you should be able to just tell people what you want, rather than have to dread them into it covertly]

[–]screechhaterRed Beret1 point2 points  (13 children) | Copy

You have a few items intertwined in your understanding of frame, OI, your mission and dread.

Most importantly, you don’t get that your applying too much pressure in areas that do not require pressure regularly that eventually blow up in your face, then you will be dumped and she will talk about you beating the control freak.

BTW, you should chill the fuck out and really she what you are intvolvrd with in this LTR, especially if she is broken or damaged goods

I’m not stating get lazy, I’m stating evaluate for value

[–]JameisBong5 points6 points  (12 children) | Copy

Step father, childhood issues is a huge red flag for me, i will not get involved with anyone who has them. I don't know why OP even considered her a good fit for anything long term.

[–]screechhaterRed Beret1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Vetting is key.

[–]GC0W30Fat, needs discipline0 points1 point  (10 children) | Copy

It looks like he was BP when he started with her.

BP guys with a sane approach to vetting are not common.

[–]JameisBong1 point2 points  (9 children) | Copy

No. "He secured his LTR after discovering the red pill". I'm surprised he even considered one that soon after discovering TRP.

[–]GC0W30Fat, needs discipline2 points3 points  (7 children) | Copy

Point conceded.

And, good point. If you LTR before doing two years of RP personal development, you're just going to have to dump your LTR later once it's time to upgrade.

[–]JameisBong0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy

Right, he hasn't done any serious work... I haven't either, but i won't be going into any LTR in the foreseeable future. Being red pill aware is great, I don't even consider broken women for a ONS.The moment i see a red flag I'm out, let her be someone else's problem.

[–]redpill_ltr-friendly[S] 0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy

What makes you think I haven't done any serious work? I've been RP aware and studying and implementing since about 2014. That's after I had already done over a year of serious PUA study and practice. I was implementing RP understandings and strategies for years before going LTR. I've replied elsewhere in this thread on more details about how and why I LTRd this woman.

[–]JameisBong0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy

You are in her frame and it shows, i separated from my BPD my wife when i found TRP. I will not be taking in any woman who is not up to par. If she's lazy, next. Low libido, next. Stopped cooking? Next, next, next. You get the picture?

[–]redpill_ltr-friendly[S] 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

Not sure if you read the other comment. I screened a lot of different women. Lots and lots. The one that I found isn't perfect. No woman is perfect. But she is great in a lot of ways, and I am willing to accept the ways she is not perfect. She's not lazy. She runs her own business. She doesn't have low libido. She's always horny for me. She cooks and cleans constantly. She gives me bodywork (e.g., massage) when I complain of a sore neck, etc. I am here to try and optimize my relationship. My question had to do with how to inspire her to become her best self. Workout gurus, spiritual gurus, motivational speakers and others inspire people to find the greatness within themselves and manifest it in their lives, becoming super fit, healthy, and happy. They don't do it by dreading and nexting. That is a great strategy for weeding through the options and finding someone you're willing to work with. At some point though, you will have to settle for less than perfect, and learn to work with it. Unless you believe in unicorns.

[–]JameisBong1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

Ok, i think i understand where you are coming from. I also don't think anyone can inspire you externally to become great. We all came looking for answers and found TRP, the TRP god fathers weren't moving around preaching the gospel. That's the problem in this situation i think. Yes she is good, but she lacks motivation and you want to guide her. In my BP days I'd consider it, but now no. Best of luck to you man, I hope you find the solution you are looking for.

[–]redpill_ltr-friendly[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

"that soon"? How soon do you think it was, did you invent that it was in your head? It was 3 years before she became an LTR. Read my other post-reply elsewhere for more details on the process of turning her from plate to LTR. It was not something I jumped into lightly.

[–]psychosis20200 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

... I had pretty much all the power in the relationship.

The problem is that she was anxious as fuck. Constantly comfort-seeking. She never shit-tested. She never got angry at me. She only got sad, upset, hurt, insecure and more neurotic. That is obviously not a fun person to live with.

The power dynamic / balance in any relationship and especially a LTR is in a constant state of flux. People need to realise that attraction and comfort are inversely proportional to each other. A lot of people want to be Chad in an LTR but they don't realise that when typical Chad's get in an LTR; one they usually don't last and secondly the women is probably displaying all the above behaviours and not that much fun to be around.

Chad just doesn't give a fuck or probably spend that much time with her. The only exceptions to this will be extremely submissive women (and then they may just not show external manifestations of these thought processes) and whilst all women will typically respond to male dominance it will be to variable degrees, ever shifting and she has a lot of backup to buck against due to main stream feminist thinking and propaganda.

However, occasionally, she becomes less compliant, more lazy, works out less, does less sexual favors, etc..

LTR / marriage is game on hard mode it requires work and calibrating attraction / comfort on a constant basis unless you truly have OI then why not just next her (but you say your not ready why?) and realise that if you want to have constant compliance and no complacency then it will be easier doing this with plates. Your gonna struggle getting someone to be your best friend, soul mate and totally compliant sex slave as you seem to desire.

What do you do when your LTR can't seem to handle dread? When the dread isn't translating into increased sexual desire but is instead translating into neuroticism, anxiety, and depression.

On this comment firstly lets talk sexual desire even with dread it isn't going to be 100% all the time, women generally don't desire sex as frequently as men (t-levels and all that) and can change throughout the month. What time period are we talking and what is the change in desire?

Women are generally more passive when it comes to sex and respond to stimulus my SO even when we first got together it was always me that initiated (2 / 3 times a day) and she never initiates now I just take what I need. You can get in your head that she is desiring sex less but is it that you are thinking about what she is thinking / feeling and initiating less as a result? I'm sure there are guys on here that think applying some dread and the women will be forever waiting for them in lingerie on her hands and knees every time he comes home from work.

Your comments on her neuroticism, anxiety and depression seem to imply you are trying to work out how she is feeling (hopefully not trying to fix / white night?). This is going in to her frame and she will consciously or subconsciously recognise if manifesting these behaviours change, how you interact with her, she will use them more. Your job isn't to make her feel happy you can try and lead her out of these mindsets but never at the expense of your own frame.

A quick question on the blow job question when did the issue of the trauma come up? Was it from day zero or was it further down the relationship? Depending on how she saw you at the beginning of the relationship i.e. AF or BB then this can tell you a lot. If she saw you as AF (Chad) and wasn't a problem at the beginning but now is it is more a shit test / manipulation. However if she saw you as AF (Chad) and was an issue then, sometimes trauma and hard no's are genuine and guys can work around them without fear of losing "alpha status".

A women for example may have a medical condition that rules out anal and if genuine means that no Chad will be going near it. Guys when discovering RP tend to have levels of attraction based on the compliance of the women (anal / face fucking) but sometimes there are also genuine issues and she won't be doing them with the next Chad's either.

You need to calibrate whether the issues are genuine and work around them or if not next and find someone without them. Don't let it become purely about validating your "alpha status" / attraction level unless you can learn to detach from "caring" about her or her potentially next'ing you.



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