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The Sexist Pseudoscience of Alpha Male Pick-Up Artists

mayonesa

June 10, 2014
9 upvotes
/r/TheRedPill
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Post Information
Title The Sexist Pseudoscience of Alpha Male Pick-Up Artists
Author

mayonesa

Upvotes 9
Comments 40
Date June 10, 2014 3:43 PM UTC
(12 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/TheRedPill
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/27skqm/the_sexist_pseudoscience_of_alpha_male_pickup/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/TheRedPill/the-sexist-pseudoscience-of-alpha-male-pick-up.229640
https://theredarchive.com/post/229640
Red Pill terms in post
alphathe red pill
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Comments

[–][deleted] 12 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]Proud_Denzel 12 points13 points14 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Did they mention "negging" as part of PUA.

[–][deleted] 15 points16 points17 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

The joke is, women CONSTANTLY neg. We just call it "shit-testing," but really, it's another form of neg.

[–]Zaorish9 10 points11 points12 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I can still remember when I thought negging was 'sexist' and 'evil'. Now I see women doing it constantly, every time I flirt with them.

[–]mayonesa[S] 3 points4 points5 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Dismissive, "Men's Rights are a joke, amirite?" Check.

I think that's the topic of this article.

[–]itsmehobnob 3 points4 points5 points 12 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

Who are these articles intended for?

[–]SeekingAlpha 14 points15 points16 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Blue-pillers needing ideological validation.

[–]itsmehobnob 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

yes of course. I have trouble remembering the size of that demographic.

[–][deleted] 12 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–][deleted] 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points8 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah really. I had a fairly RP upbringing (really alpha dad) and grew up in a more conservative culture (Russia). When I came to America and started having to shut up rather than say common sense stuff (RP), I felt ashamed because I thought I was some backwards immigrant who doesn't know how to be civilized.

I came here a few months back from one of those "what is the worst subreddit" threads and I have to say, thank you. Up until I came here I was trying to brainwash myself into a BP mindset out of a misguided idea that Americans need to act this way. Now I realize it's just a symptom of cultural decay. I went back to my upbringing/instincts and honestly have never been happier or more succesful.

[–]RebootedMale 21 points22 points23 points 12 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

PUA works. It works TOO well.

A coworker of mine (short, shy) studied PUA for a couple of years and started getting laid specifically because of it.

Then he killed himself when he realized it wouldn't help him get a quality relationship, which is what he REALLY wanted.

I'm serious.

Children with dynamite.

[–][deleted] 17 points18 points19 points 12 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

It is difficult, after a lifetime spent toiling away building temples to Aphrodite, to accept that she does not exist.

[–]1Zanford 11 points12 points13 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

BOOM. The Unicorn is the Ozymandias of our time.

Aphrodite does exist. She was a raging AFBB (Ares / Hephaestus) slut.

Athena, the virgin goddess of wisdom, perhaps not.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

This is true, and Athena is probably a better goddess to pick to represent the unicorn.

[–]jacks1000 9 points10 points11 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It is difficult, after a lifetime spent toiling away building temples to Aphrodite, to accept that she does not exist.

The secret of the Mystery Religion is that "temple of the goddess" is a euphemism for "brothel." Bring your gold coin and you got to "worship the goddess" with one of the priestesses.

Guys who actually spent a lot of time ruminating on the Divine Mystery of Woman completely missed the point; one assumes no one showed them where the back room was.

[–]mayonesa[S] 6 points7 points8 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The quality, relatively chaste, long-lasting family-oriented relationship is the real success in dating/life.

Everything else is compensation.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The real question is whether PUA failed to get quality relationships or his standards of quality are too high, meaning he is looking for a unicorn, in which cause it is his irrationally naive upbringing that got him killed. Most people, once they become adults, cannot cope with their beliefs and their models of the world being shattered. Cognitive dissonance is the only thing that prevents them from going insane and blowing their head off.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points8 points 12 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

It is still possible. I managed it. 15 years of marriage and the kids are nearing the last 4-5 years of rearing (obviously it's not a bright line, but you get my drift, they are moving toward autonomy). She did not go to college (not due to lack of brains, it was a religious upbringing thing) and she made it very clear when we dated that she wanted marriage and a family, which we have.

Now, I am not the kind of guy who gets oneitis, I like women in general, not in the specific. My wife is fun to be around, likes to go places and do things and has fun when she does. She doesn't mope, she doesn't look for reasons to complain, she doesn't constantly test my patience or focus unduly on guilt from her past or anxiety about her future. I went looking for precisely this kind of woman and when I found one I grabbed her.

[–]RebootedMale 3 points4 points5 points 12 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

I agree that quality relationships are still possible. But my coworker didn't believe in himself. PUA helped him get laid, TRP could have helped him to love and respect himself and have a better chance of finding a quality relationship.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points7 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I don't mean to make light of his experience. I was lucky that due to prior experience with women unlike my current wife I knew what I was looking for (by virtue of know what I didn't want). The reason I posted that is so that other guys out there reading this sub who think 'man I can never get married' because they constantly hear horror stories about marriage and guys being dominated by their wives. I just want them to know that it doesn't have to be like that. No woman is perfect, but some of them are better, and knowing what attributes you should look for if you want to find a woman worth keeping around and having kids with is important.. but only for those guys who want to. In no way am I saying marriage is for everyone.

[–]RebootedMale 4 points5 points6 points 12 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

The bottom line is tons of the guys who study PUA have terrible self esteem and depression issues, and getting laid doesn't fix that. So if they apply PUA correctly and start getting results, it isn't going to make them happier people past the minute after they blow their load. The underlying problem remains. PUA is not a scam, but it doesn't fix the problem, it addresses the symptoms. "Not getting laid" is not a problem. It is a symptom of underlying problems.

Also, sane people don't kill somebody because they aren't getting laid. And sane people don't become killers because "misogyny/patriarchy". And "men's rights" can make you mad, but it can't make you crazy.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Absolutely, unhappy guys, guys with high neuroticism, high anxiety, are everywhere. Some sub-sub-set of those guys will be attracted to PUA. But that doesn't make PUA responsible for a shooting spree any more than the brand of toothpaste the guy chose.

And of course, PUA doesn't change who you are, only how well you can attract women, which might even be a bad thing. If it were me I'd be encouraging guys to deal with their depression/anxiety/neuroticism before they add women into the mix. Try the game on normal for a bit before you switch to hard mode.

[–]Endorsed ContributorBluepillProfessor 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

That is why PUA needs to be paired with TRP. Improving yourself while learning pickup artistry is the task of a lifetime.

[–]joe_bruised_ego 14 points15 points16 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Didn’t Rodger never even approach a girl? Hard to believe he was disappointed in PUA methods if he never even tried.

[–]RebootedMale 13 points14 points15 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

He had oneitis for some girl he'd known since she was 10 and he was like 13 or 14 or something. Dude was as blue pill as it gets.

[–]blarggggggggggg 12 points13 points14 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

So much nonsense in this article. PUAHate may be idiots but representing their entire culture based on the chat log of two joking sarcastic kids is ridiculous. Like summing up the fitness community from the worst threads on /fit/.

Not going to waste time debunking all of this but I had to mention this one thing - "Early art venerated the female, not male, form, and so matriarchal societies may have been common." This is a ridiculous leap of logic which directly contradicts other sources in this very article that show some evidence for egalitarian societies. Egalitarian societies, I should add, that may have had more equality but likely had well defined gender roles and behavior.

[–]Senior Contributorexit_sandman 4 points5 points6 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It's funny how that douche praised matriarchy as the go-to concept of a "good" society but failed to mention that we'd still be searching for the wheel if we had been stuck with it.

I remember having seen a TV show about a matriarchy-oriented society once which made it abundantly clear that the males were mostly hanging around all day. Well yeah, I wonder why they didn't see any real reason to work their asses off with no real responsibility on their hands and no family (apart from having to take care of their half-nephews if they had them) of their own.

[–]blarggggggggggg 4 points5 points6 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

LOL - I just read one of the links from this new republic article supposedly supporting the author's case for ancient 'egalitarian society.'

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2003/08/030807075457.htm

It basically says that sex based size differences in fossils are about the same as contemporary humans so they are guessing at "the same kind of modern social structure" as we have today.

Also, the 'egalitarianism' of this article is specifically referring to cooperation among males, speculating that ancient human male cooperation is more prominent than in societies of apes. Because the degree of ancient human sexual dimorphism is smaller, researchers are basically guessing that social structure was more like that of chimps.

Conclusion: the author of the new republic article is an idiot.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

What does the term "sexism" even mean in the context of dating?

[–]mayonesa[S] 4 points5 points6 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

What does it even mean, period? Someone prefers one sex to the other, and thinks it's better. So what?

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

[deleted]

What is this?

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 12 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

[deleted]

What is this?

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It doesn't go far enough to say that Elliot Rodgers wasn't representative of the manosphere. Saying that is like saying that "Obama is not representative of the Asian community at large." These are full-blown category differences.

Elliot Rogers was a person who exhibited the exactly opposite personality attributes from what TRP or the PUA community discuss. TRP is everything that Elliot Rodgers desperately needed: game, self-esteem, non-pedestalizing, general life mentoring from successful older guys and guys with a good, healthy, pro-male and well-adjusted head on their shoulders.

[–]cooltrip 4 points5 points6 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

An Alpha doesn't need to rape women; women beg him for sex. Only unsuccesful pathetic worthless honorless betas need to approach, to game and to rape women in order to have sex.

[–]boredinclass2 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

YEAH!

[–]Endorsed Contributorvandaalen 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

fuck

[–]kenatogo 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

"like reddit’s nightmarish r/theredpill sub, where terms like alpha are a bedrock of the lingo and women are seen (without apparent awareness of the contradiction) as both intentionally disrespectful of men and witless automatons in thrall to their genetic programming."

I don't think anyone here thinks women are intentionally disrespectful. Rather, that women ARE disrespectful, and believe they aren't. Witless automatons, yes, in a very large majority.

[–]alreadyredschool 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I love these dudes who hate reality so much they reject it.

[–]Endorsed ContributorBluepillProfessor 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Pick-up artists sell an ideology about women, and an odd one at that—cod evolutionary psychology and pop anthropology mashed together into a kind of brute forced seduction, or a quantified romance that approaches women like mechanical devices that can be debugged and reprogrammed. It takes the phrase “press her buttons” too literally, and assumes there’s a de facto biological Konami code that any man can use on any woman.

First they ignore you. Then they ridicule you. Then they fight you. then you win (Mao Tse Tung).

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