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Your TRT experience

Reddit View
July 9, 2019

TLDR: how has your TRT experience been so far, finding right dosages, adjunct meds like AIs SERMS etc.

I went to see my doctor back in 2016 and again this February for blood panels. Hypo thyroid and low total T. Been working “naturally” to balance my hormones and thyroid. As of this year have made little progress as I was reviewing my labs last night. Have had brain fog, lack of motivation, lack of energy ie. lots of caffeine, sometimes mood swings but nothing unmanageable, libido has been ok with ups and downs I thought were normal, had morning wood 90% of the time.

It’s recently been almost 2.5 weeks my libido just tanked, no morning wood, less interest in sex etc which took me awhile to even realize as I was doing a lot of projects around the house, kids soccer etc. but now I look back and realize I’ve never gone more than a week with this happening.

I made an appointment with another doctor today that works in the clinic I go to who specializes in TRT for a consultation. Been reading TNation forum and studying up on what to expect and what to watch out for with incompetent doctors etc. just wondering what your experience has been, I think I’ve given the “natural” solution a long enough shot.

If anyone cares here’s my relevant lab work as of 2/12/2019

TSH 3.31 T4 1.1 T3 3.1 Vit D 32.6 DHEA-Sulfate 426.8 Cortisol 14.7 DHT 26 Total T 430.1 (up from 369) Free T 16.2

Post Information
Title Your TRT experience
Author beta_game
Upvotes 7
Comments 39
Date 09 July 2019 09:07 PM UTC (1 year ago)
Subreddit askMRP
Original Link
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[–]BobbyPeruRed Beret6 points7 points  (4 children) | Copy

You left out the most important details:

What is your age, height, weight, lifts? Also , are you taking meds that might cause lower T, like opiates?

369 to 430 is a decent jump.

[–]beta_game[S] 1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy

I’m not on any meds

38, 5’7” , 169lbs down from my heaviest at 190lbs. I’ve dropped bf from about 28% to about 19% but this is where I always plateau at. I’m converting too much estrogen and my dr wants me to lose more weight but it’s a negative feed back loop when your body is estrogen dominate and doesn’t want to drop the fat. My thyroid is a little fucked too which could be causing the testosterone issue or vise versa. My lifts suck even though I’m on a progressive strength training program but for example my BP is 60lb dumbbells 8 reps and overhead press is 85. My progression is super slow, I lift 3xweek and do HIIT or Krav Maga 2xweek. I’m limited to planet fitness so no barbells but I have a power rack on order and getting my garage set up so I can start real dead lifts and squats.

Anyway I have an appointment with another doctor next Tuesday at a private clinic that does testosterone optimization, I’ll have him go over my labs and see if I can sort out the thyroid/Test issues. Thanks for the feedback

[–]BobbyPeruRed Beret3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy

At 5’7”, 169 lbs, and weak lifts, no way are you at 19% BF. Your T went up 15% by losing 20 lbs. You have another 20 to lose. I’m betting you’d be close to 500 if you lost that 20, but I’m not a medical pro. I’m not against TRT, but you have to remember this is something you’re probably going to be on for the rest of your life, so you should do everything possible (including losing that extra 20) IMO.

I’m on TRT, but I didn’t start until I was 50. For me, it was a game changer, but I’m glad I waited (even though I probably waited a year too long)

But, if you are having severe ED, that’s a factor too.

The point is... it’s not a black and white decision. There is a lot of gray... a lot of things to consider.

[–]beta_game[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Thanks, I agree on waiting too, preferably another 10 years or so. My ED is sporadic right now. Maybe your right and fixing my thyroid issues will allow the rest of the fat loss and T will go back up. The BF% was based off InBody scan at dr office but those are not as accurate as Dexa scans.

[–]NoCoast820 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I’m converting too much estrogen and my dr wants me to lose more weight but it’s a negative feed back loop when your body is estrogen dominate and doesn’t want to drop the fat.

How high is your estrogen? The role of elevated estrogen on fat mass in males is still kind of a grey area, and is a weak argument for your lack of progress in this area. Low estrogen is clearly linked to increased fat mass however.

The negative feedback loop you need to worry about is elevated estrogen down regulating your test production.

Same thing with your thyroid, thyroid issues are linked to sex hormone issues, but not the other way around.

I am on TRT and have seen great improvements in my quality of life, but I made sure I to put in the effort to optimize my health before starting, and my numbers were much worse then yours.

Focus on getting to a healthy bodyweight, especially as you have already had a moderate increase by improving your lifestyle. That is just my opinion

Also remember even a full blown steroid cycle isnt going to make you lean and strong, you need to do the work in the kitchen and at the gym

[–]hack3geRed Beret5 points6 points  (4 children) | Copy

Pretty much fucking amazing.

It’s good you are educating yourself because most doctors suck. If I didn’t learn everything I could for 6 months my experience would have sucked. My doc wanted me on 200mg once a month - would have been miserable. I convinced him to do 50mg twice a week and honestly I didn’t have to do any dialing which I know is rare. My Test fell at 900 and E2 at 29 the first round of bloods.

That being said my doc is lenient and I’ve since upped my dose so my trough is at 1150 and feel fucking invincible. I never realized how my low T impacted my workouts. I’ve been fighting that shit for years - lifting and not making decent gains. I’d bulk put on mostly fat then cut and lose all my muscle.

Verify what BobbyPeru said with regard to things that could be causing low T and also check Prolactin but likely you aren’t going to get anywhere without injections.

[–]beta_game[S] 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

I think the doctor I found is legit but I’m still researching what protocols other guys are on and having enough knowledge to ask the right questions.

[–]hack3geRed Beret0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Hopefully but like you said it’s good to be knowledgeable - there are so many nuances. Many doctors will put you on an AI straight away but the current line of thought in the really good doctors is to not even use one.

A good doctor will likely put you on 50mg twice a week and run blood tests in 6-8 weeks. If they give you HCG and an AI likely it’s a cookie cutter clinic which isn't bad per say just really need to be careful because they are introducing a ton of factors all at once.

[–]beta_game[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Yeah that’s what I’ve found so far, best to try and not raise estrogen, smaller more frequent injections

[–]hack3geRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Yeah mine is creeping up as I up my dose - my E2 is at like 36 now but my T is also 1150 at that point so the ratio isn’t bad. I’ve been thinking about going to EOD and sub Q injections to try and help bring it down. I haven’t read much literature on how big of an impact those things have on E2 levels but the forums seem to indicate its significant. I do know that towards the end of my 3 days I am getting some E2 sides so I probably need to address it.

I’m also planning on blasting so I know I’m going to have to go down to ED for that anyways.

[–]red-sfpplusHard Core Red4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

TRT is the first small step in becoming a greek god.

[–]go-RED-go2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

Is there someone in marriedredpill over 40 that's not on TRT?

[–]Cam_Winston212 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

I'm not. 52, have zero symptoms of low T and my wife takes Maca root just in case it helps her to 'keep up with' my libido. The only mornings I don't wake up with wood is when I had sex the night before.

I'm 6'6", 230 lbs ~12% body fat & been lifting for decades, so the "to do" list is in line. I don't need TRT right now, but if I had any symptoms, I would take. Each person is different.

[–]RedPill-BlackLotusRed Beret5 points6 points  (9 children) | Copy

TLDR: how has your TRT experience been so far, finding right dosages, adjunct meds like AIs SERMS etc.

It's been amazing. I scream it Into the ears of every man I meet over the age of 35 to jump on for quality of life.

I was genuinely low, less than 200 total test. I had multiple samples taken by an endocrinologist.

Once I went on the test injections my entire personality changed. I haven't played video games since. I was in a deadbedroom, but it was me that had the tanked libido. The man my wife married was not the real me.

I was working with an endocrinologist and he took a year setting up my trt protocol. I was doing the legit trt thing for a couple of years. The same endocrinologist was doing bloods for half the bodybuilders in the city so I just started juicing. That's even more fun.

The only way to set up your ai protocol (if you need one) is with bloodwork and experimenting. If you can get your trt protocol set up this way it's the best. This is your cruse dose set up by a doctor. Its valuable.

Trt can destroys as many marriages as it saves. The version of you that will be making decisions after trt dosent exist yet. Remember that.

[–]red-sfpplusHard Core Red6 points7 points  (7 children) | Copy

Trt can destroys as many marriages as it saves. The version of you that will be making decisions after trt dosent exist yet. Remember that.

This is a very important point.

[–]beta_game[S] 0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy

This is something I’ve been considering too. Going Rambo?

[–]red-sfpplusHard Core Red4 points5 points  (4 children) | Copy

I am Rambo.

[–]beta_game[S] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

They drew first blood, not me

[–]red-sfpplusHard Core Red1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Fucking tell me about it.

[–]Over60_FireTempered3Red Beret1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I am Groot.

[–]RStonePT0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Ha! If this isn't the truth.

[–]WesternhagenWinner2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

I endorse everything said here. My experience is very similar although I am just doing "legit TRT" not juicing.

Among other things, TRT is the difference between "I can force myself to lift twice a week" and "I have an absolute undeniable imperative to lift five times a week". In addition to the physical effects, the psychological effects of TRT plus lifting were profound - an end to anxiety and depression.

Took about six months of working with the doc to find the right dose of T and also AIs.

Do not go to a family practitioner, because they are almost always dismissive of low T as a problem. They will look at a "low normal" number and say, "eh, you're good" without even telling you what the number is. Go to a specialist and get multiple samples taken.

TRT did not save my marriage. "The man my wife married was not the real me" -- this is very true. But no matter, because not going on TRT would also not have saved the marriage, and TRT was essential to fixing the man, regardless of whether or not the marriage could be fixed.

[–]awyden0 points1 point  (8 children) | Copy

I was in the mid 400s and my Dr. wouldn't put me on TRT since that's in the normal range.

[–]beta_game[S] 0 points1 point  (7 children) | Copy

Normal for a man in his 70s, maybe. Low T puts you at risk for a host of problems including cardiovascular disease.

[–]awyden0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy

Guess i need a new doctor. Everything i can find says "normal" is over 300. I'd hate to doctor shop but i guess i may need to.

[–]beta_game[S] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

The scale is based off of averages and the average male has lost a lot of hormones over the last 50 years. Ironically women have no problem with doctors when it comes to THEIR hormone treatment.

[–]i-am-the-prize0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

you want "ideal" what an active fit college age man has. I was at sub 200, and my gp said it was normal, b/c labcorp said it was normal. I didn't have ED, but no morning wood like college and HS all the time.

now testing close to 1000 and I have to force myself to not go to the gym and instead do other things (don't want to overtrain, i'm ~50 yrs old and post multiple joint surgeries)

[–]awyden0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

damn i'm going to find someone else then. do you know anyone in the "normal" range that has been given treatment?

[–]i-am-the-prize1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

ask the Dr. what they consider 'normal' if it's what's in the 'normal range' on the lab report, they are not a HRT specialist as they know that's the average for all tested in the past year, vs. ideal/optimal.

you want optimal health.

diet + fitness are important, but i truly feel HRT is a huge (often missing) piece of the puzzle.

[–]awyden1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I’m probably just going to go to a TRT clinic. There a few highly rated ones around me.

[–]strngExtent0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy

My TRT experience has been good, to give context I started at 169 total and went up to 487 then dipped back to 330. I went from 200 biweekly to 100 weekly, now I'm 200mg weekly with .5 mg of anastrozole every other day. Last labs my E2 was high and SBHG was low. My lifts are better. 360 squat, 405 deadlift, bench 205. Weight is 213, height 6'1. I'm probably 18 to 19 percent body fat. It's an art as much of a science. You have to find what works best for you when administering. Keep doing research and take notes on your mood, morning wood, sex drive, etc. Best of luck.

[–]beta_game[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

What’s your total T now? I’m feeling pretty shitty at 430, but I think I fluctuate a lot based by my body responses

[–]beta_game[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

What’s your total T now? I’m feeling pretty shitty at 430, but I think I fluctuate a lot based by my body responses

[–]strngExtent0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Last labs was 330. I feel good but it needs to be well above 700. I've never felt "shitty". My emotions were up and down until I dialed in the anastrozole. I was on out of range by two points for E2. I want this to drop then I'll stop the AI. I'll let you know how it goes. Next labs in August.

[–]i-am-the-prize0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Interesting. My Dr. started me on Anastrozole once i was a few months into TRT (and another hormone was higher than he liked, the one i read can cause man tits(?) estradiol? ) and have felt better since starting Anastrozole - wonder if it was making my feel like a woman ;)

you said: " .5 mg of anastrozole every other day " you sure? I don't know if my journaling is wrong, but i did 0.5mg on day 1, then 14 days later another dose (pill), then 30 days later another dose, then 60 days later another; I'm doing blood work hopefully next week to check my levels - but my Dr. spread it out in a 'larger time spread" as noted above.

[–]NotResultsOriented0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

25th percentile to 75th. Better energy and libido, though not that pronounced. I get literally 1/5th as sore from lifting, so, yeah, it's great.

[–]WolfofAllStreetz0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

You have a lot of good advice here so there isn't a ton for me to add. I have battled low T since I was 26, (35 now). Secondary hypo, no other issues. I wanted to wait until we had a kid before I started, and I've been running for 8 months now. I have a really basic protocol at 100mg a week, no ai (not needed) but my SBGH is total shit so I have to pin twice a week. I never was above 200, first injection took me to 900 and I felt like a different human being. It was like someone opened the shades on a dark room. I also suffered with anxiety, and depression for a long time and I think this was a big part of it.

I was a big weight lifter in my 20s and having low natural test really fucked me over when I had to lift hard as hell and get injured meanwhile my friends were all getting huge. Wish I jumped on this ship sooner because I felt like I missed a good part of my 20s being in a shit mood.

My best advice is find a doctor who knows what the fuck they are doing. I live in a really rural area and couldn't find anyone to prescribe and GP's suck for this so find a decent urologist who specializes in mens health (preferably someone younger).

[–]SoggyTrainCucked by machines0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

TRT is awesome. I would say for the average person, 50mg 2x per week with no AI is the best place to start. Do that for a few months and then get checked. I test over at that dose, so have to do 40 2x per week before I go get bloods. I had an interesting start to TRT tho. Felt awesome for 3-4 months, then felt like shit. Spent some time on some other forums, ended up taking selenium and iodine for a couple months (had some low thyroid symptoms although bw was good), and that seemed to balance everything. Now I only take iodine maybe once or twice a month, and it is a safe low dose. Be ready for shit tests about the new you (I wasn't), but it seems very common.

[–]billy-10200 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Had my vasectomy reversed one year after the procedure.. dont know about t-levels but that by itself fixed the low intensity sex I experienced.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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