Women can't love like men do? Study on oxytocin

raziphel · 2018-04-02T14:55:33+00:00

First off, recognize that these decisions about supporting certain paradigms are often emotional and subconscious decisions first and rationalized second. When we see "facts" that support a view we already imagine as true, our brains reinforce the pre-made decision. That's just how (all) people are built, it's part of the human condition, and it's something you're attempting to swim against without actually knowing how to swim. This takes practice, and it's also a major hole that allows us to be manipulated by others. That's what's occurring here and you're getting taken for a ride. Don't feel guilty- everyone gets put in your position at some point. What's important is that we learn from it and move forward, in a way that helps prevent being suckered again.

Claims from specious websites should obviously be taken with a grain of salt. What do we look for? Notice how neither article linked to the actual study- that should be an immediate bullshit flag. They're jumping to conclusions, and TRP further jumped to conclusions it to promote their own venomous ideology, and now so have you. Every good lie has a grain of truth buried in the bullshit. You know that, but you don't feel it. Of course it's pseudoscience, and that group is viewing those bits of information through the manipulative "red pill" lens, specifically looking for reasons to make women seem foreign. It is an "appeal to biology" fallacy. They use shit like this to create a moral high ground and to rope in the gullible, and it works. That's how cults function and you've taken the bait. Again, don't feel guilty, but learn from this experience.

I say foreign there specifically because yes there are some differences between how men and women think and act. Some of it is biological, most of it is social/environmental (ie women are raised and treated differently, which affects our experiential knowledge pool), but the basic thought process and structure is the same. They're still human, and they do still use the same logic and cognitive processes as men, despite what redpill and other misogynist groups imagine. Don't buy into any of that "men are from mars, women are from venus" claptrap.

How do we move in a positive direction? Learn to understand and feel things from their perspective, practice empathy (ie emotional imagination), and you'll understand. It's the exact same process you'd use to understand the perspective of anyone who's had different life experiences than you. Again- basic empathy. It's not really a hard process, but it does take practice. Part of this means cutting out toxic sources of information.

Of course happy brain chemicals are released with physical touch and intimate contact... if you do it right. If you do it wrong, or are sending the wrong body language signals, the opposite will occur. Not all hugs are equal, and not all kisses are equal- there's significantly more nuance and context involved. So what do we do? First, we understand how a proper, positive mindset affects our thoughts and actions (and how negative mindsets fuck everything up). Then we develop better observation and critical analysis skills (notably toward social skills), investigate what the behavioral roots and triggers are, understand the contextual differences more accurately, learn what the proper techniques are, practice doing things right until it becomes ingrained muscle memory, and we improve. It's not actually hard, but it does mean starting in the right direction. Selfish bigotry is not the right direction.

So what if babies release more happy brain chemicals than adults. Does that honestly matter? No. It's not like you have to compete against children, right? No, that would be foolish. Neither do you have to compete against puppies, kittens, or anything else. What does this position say about men and children? Nothing good. All ya gotta do is your best, and improve whatever "your best" is. If you do your best and someone still doesn't value you? Learn from it in a healthy manner and find someone who does.

So as for this specific topic:

Men do typically kiss differently than women, especially guys who lack the social skills and experience necessary to do active observation and self-reflection. Watching the intimacy progression of two women kissing shows this immediately- they start small and ramp up slowly. It's not just kissing, either. There's eye contact, blushing, smiling, gentle touch, and so on. Doing it right takes practice on our part as men, notably to slow down, but an individual woman's preferences are also subjective.

Listen to women about their experiences with bad kissers- a lot of men don't know how to kiss women properly (I'm guilty of this on occasion too). How? They don't pay attention to what their lovers want and they act selfishly. People tend to kiss the way they like to be kissed, and if you're just going straight in for tonsil-hockey, she's not going to have a good time. Of course that creates bad experiences, and those bad experiences create associations in the brain because that's how subconscious brains function for everyone. Makes sense, right? This is all basic logic stuff, with no need for complex rationalization.

Guess what: if you learn to kiss someone properly and you treat them well, you're going to outshine all those dense-ass clods by a mile.

As for the other topic:

"She's not capable of loving you the same way you love her" is paranoid horse shit and you know it. Not only is it in line with the "women are lesser" redpill cult ideology, but it's self-defeating- if you're feeling desperate, you'll start acting desperate, she's going to notice and things will get weird. If you don't know how to communicate those emotions in a healthy manner, it'll likely lead to an eventual breakup. You will have crippled yourself by being afraid of nothing.

The concern you have is misplaced- it is a slippery slope fallacy at best, extremely bad logic using selectively-interpreted facts, lacks relationship experience, and comes from an emotionally manipulative and abusive source. Research how propaganda and emotional abuse works- you'll see the parallels immediately. If you think she loves you less because a bunch of abusive, inexperienced malcontents point to poorly-understood pseudoscience? Dude. Drop that shit right now.

She might love you differently than "you specifically" do, but everyone has their own means of expression and we all process what love is differently anyway- that doesn't make her, or you, lesser. It is what it is. It's mostly a matter of developmental experience and interpersonal communication (notably nonverbal communication). Don't mistake a desperate selfish need for love either. If you have deep-seated fears and insecurities, address them directly in a healthy and constructive manner.

Though there are some gender differences in the expression of love, recognize that it's not actually split along biological lines, but experiential; it also it doesn't matter unless you're actively bi/pan. It's not a bad thing either- it is what it is, and it's up to you to work with others in a positive and constructive manner instead of trying to work against them.

Showing people you love them in ways they can see takes effort, but that isn't a bad thing. It just takes practice. It's only a big deal when you fuck it up and refuse to adapt.

intjdad · 2018-04-02T18:31:41+00:00

The fact that you're worried about this amazes me. Like, I died reading the title. If anything it's the opposite just based on behavior alone. All women do is talk about love and we are made fun of for it. I actually think women are socialized to be too obsessed with love and that prevents us from facing the world as our own person. I guess this makes me feel better though. It genuinely seems like men only want us for sex or ownership... I mean, they treat us that way and there aren't any say, romance movies for guys. Even anime waifus tend to not have complex personalities, they're mostly just cute and loving. Guys never like the interesting female characters I find attractive either. This is highly suspect from my position, considering the most common complaint I hear from my (very attractive and interesting) friends is that guys aren't interested in them for their personalities and they feel like a placeholder. Hope this makes you feel better, I guess. I probably won't anytime soon after being traumatized by how guys treat my friends and I... Like I literally avoid guys in general at this point out of fear and as a defensive measure. And my male therapist thinks I should too and that I'm "not wrong" which is... fantastic.

This reminds me of a article I read a long time ago that claimed that men biologically become repulsed by their partners after sex... Which caused me to have the same reaction you are. Is that true? If not this probably isn't either.

glassangelrose · 2018-04-02T14:50:16+00:00

As a woman, I can attest that skin to skin contact makes me feel more connected. So I think this is pseudoscience.

CaptinSuspenders · 2018-04-02T23:32:41+00:00

I actually follow Helen Fischer, and have read her books so I got the answers 4 you, but first Im foing to bitch. As a woman, I find this paranoia so very weird. Every guy I know is shady af about relationships, despite being solid people, and "aren't ready for anything serious" and are like, not very romantic people. Every woman I know is like so cute and considerate to the people they date and get really attached, and totally just want to find the love of their life. I like, don't get why you would think women don't love in the same way... I've written songs and poems (I'm a musician/writer so they're v good, not cringy, well received ) and done super romantic things for my serious partners, literally only one of them returned the favor ever. I've never had something romantic done for me, I do romantic stuff constantly when I'm in love. When it comes to my personal oxytocin experience, I'm really sensitive and have read a lot about it, and when I'm first falling in love I sink into an oxytocin puddle. Like I feel glued to them and want to hug everyone I love and cuddle my cat. This is distinct from serotonin based attachment, as that is responsible for thinking about people obsessively and becoming mentally addicted, I associate this system with like, real love, not the puppy love of oxytocin, or the thrill and novelty of dopamine love.

All of this being said, bro, did you even READ THE ARTICLE??? I'm going to copy and paste the section your brainwashed brain skipped over (good luck on your recovery for real)

"Hill thought that the setting might have been too clinical for the women to get turned on, so she tried in her latest study to up the ambience by locating the couples in a secluded room of an academic building, outfitted with a couch, flowers, jazz music and electric candles.

This time, cortisol levels were found to plummet, post-kissing, in both men and women, Hill found, but the other hormone results are still being analyzed, she told a group of reporters today at the AAAS meeting."

THE OTHER HORMONE RESULTS WERE STILL BEING ANALYZED! (Oxytocin for instance)Women are mad sensitive about sex and affection. I can be head over heels for someone, but if I'm stressed, there's no way I'm being turned on by their kisses. This is because women are only supposed to breed when the tribe is stable and healthy and can accommodate another baby. The burden of carrying a child falls on women, and there are safe guards in place to make sure that process goes as smoothly as possible. This is also why women need more foreplay, their bodies need to know their sexual parter is invested in them.

Ok, so yeah, making out in a bright room in public while engaging in a scientific study didn't really do it for the women lol. Big suprise. Chill dude. Humans are adorable. Go snuggle someone and forget about those god damn Neanderthals who i will never snuggle because I think they're vile. 😊

absolutebeginners · 2018-04-02T14:42:06+00:00

Are you cherry picking one study and drawing conclusions? Because I can do that with just about anything to prove any topic.

WOHBuckeye · 2018-04-03T07:04:50+00:00

Lesson one. Don't scour the internet for any information related to biology or medicine or health. If you have questions, ask someone licensed in that field. I don't care what the site is telling you, or what site it is, or whoever the Ph.D that wrote the article, never search the web for this stuff.

Lesson two. Ask yourself why in the hell you're looking for this stuff? Are you wanting a way to not fully commit to her or are you paranoid and thinking she's never going to be totally dedicated to you? The only thing you can control on this planet is you. She could be madly in love with you, the only thing she ever thinks about, and one day it may not work for her. It could be the same way with you. That's life. You can't control the brains of other people, you have to accept that with opening yourself up in a relationship, there are risks. If you're doubting she loves you, have you asked her? Has she ever said it?

Lesson three. If you're searching the net like this, you're going to come off as unsettled, and unsure of yourself. Women don't want guys who can't live without them. They want guys who can live without them just fine, because those men don't need constant reassurance, and they are more dependable in the long run. That's basic heterosexual dating psychology, but I think in most cases it sticks.

Lesson four. Get back to lesson two. You have to get all right with yourself. you are the only person who can make you happy, no matter how much in love she may be with you. If you can't fix that on your own, nobody else will for you. The fact you're dragging yourself back to this site and looking for studies and other nonsense is a waste of time and a sign you're not all right with yourself.

ghrescd · 2018-04-02T14:17:15+00:00

I have made a really similar post, thus I think it is not necessary to go over this again. Whoever the moderator is, maybe just redirect this post to this link: https://www.reddit.com/r/exredpill/comments/7u62wu/women_do_not_love_men_trp_science_that_is_hard_ot/

ifeltbitchy · 2018-05-09T18:35:40+00:00

Scientist here. Quite a lot of so called scientific research is neither scientific nor valid. You have to look at a lot of factors to figure out what the grains of truth are, and even then, biology is a complicated science that almost never gives clear-cut, black and white results.

When looking at studies online, ask yourself the following:

1) Are these studies coming from a reputable, peer-reviewed, scientific journal? I can tell you by looking at the titles, that these studies are not. Why is this important? Several 'scientific' journals are just out to make money. They will publish any old garbage as long as you send them the required 'publishing fee'.

2) Who is paying for the study? Is the actual research being done by an unbiased third party, or is it being done by people who are being 'motivated' i.e. paid to find specific results? Science is all about checks and balances. It's awfully suspicious if the same guy providing funding for studies on an awesome hair pill, is the same guy who invented said awesome hair pill. He could be honest, but you can't know that. He wants the pill to work, and if it does he will make money! He has every motivation to lie about his results.

3) Are the results reprodicible by an outside party not involved in the original study? You can't just say a drug works, you have to prove it through repeated testing. Oftentimes the repeated testing will be done by several different research groups because if the conclusions are valid and the method is clear, anyone should be able to produce those results. If the results are not reproducible, something is wrong with the science.

4) Did the study have proper controls in place? Was the study a double blind study, an open study or what? For instance, if you are testing for drug efficacy, do you have a control group that is taking a placebo to compare to? Do the scientists know which patients are taking the placebo and which are taking the drug? Did this study cover all age ranges and demographics of women or did it only cover 60 year old black women from Arizona? Did it only cover 17 year old white virgins from Ireland? Who knows! Not taking these factors into consideration and not having the proper controls can skew data significantly.

5) Was their sample size big enough? Even if they tested 10,000 women (which I guarantee you the did not, as it would be cost prohibitive), they are still only testing <0.5% of the entire female population in the world. Would you trust results based on a sample size of even less than that, like say 20 women? Are you comfortable generalizing and saying 50% of women in the world are X, when only not even a fraction of a percent of the existing population was even evaluated?

6) Finally, Is the raw data available on request for outside analysis? Are they clear about how the data was analyzed? If they are afraid to share the raw data this can be suspicious.

Tldr: it can be difficult to do biological studies accurately and with all of the proper controls. Results are often ambiguous! You should suspect any study that does not come from a scientific peer reviewed journal. Such journals are still not foolproof, even with a bunch of scientists critically examining every step. Be suspicious of studies that will not provide their raw data or materials and methods on demand for other people to look at and reproduce.

MikeKolas · 2018-04-26T15:22:47+00:00

Read my long post here - https://www.reddit.com/r/exredpill/comments/8duww9/why_so_much_focus_on_women/dy06i7w

Essentially my point is this - forget abt what the study says abt millions of women. What should really matter is - how is your woman?

Vast majority of women are not killers as per a study. But if your woman is a serial killer, would you take comfort from the findings of the study or be concerned abt the woman you have.

Do not punish your woman for the sins of others.

SpazzedMarshmallow · 2018-05-26T22:15:39+00:00

[permanently deleted]

Ryzasu · 2018-05-26T14:53:16+00:00

Looks like these studies only talk about evidence. There is no proof that if is true whatsoever

Title	Women can't love like men do? Study on oxytocin
Author	jmaj1234
Upvotes	0
Comments	27
Date	April 2, 2018 10:29 AM UTC (8 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/ExRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/exredpill/comments/88ybt8/women_cant_love_like_men_do_study_on_oxytocin/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/ExRedPill/women-cant-love-like-men-do-study-on-oxytocin.300109 https://theredarchive.com/post/300109

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