Do I Have a Covert Contract?

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December 24, 2019

28yo, 5'7", 146#, wife 31yo, 3yo boy, 1yo girl

Overhead Press 3x115#; Bench 3x155#; Deadlift 4x255#; Squat 3x205#

I had a conversation this evening with my wife where I shared that I think a friend's marriage is much worse than I thought it was. At work, he made a casual comment about how "Ya know, when you've been married for six years and have four kids, you don't really have sex anymore."

I intended to share this with my wife to emphasize why I want to reach out to this couple. They're coming over for dinner later this month. My wife, though, went into excuses mode: "Well, it's exhausting to have that many kids. Sex is different and doesn't happen as often - if at all," etc.. I got the vibe she was excusing her future self from sex more than she was empathizing with my buddy's wife.

Sure, I'll take your advice on that if you like, but what I really wanted to say is that it brought to my attention:

I don't want to have more kids because I'm afraid it'll be the end of my sex life.

Those of you who know me know I've been climbing out of a dead bedroom this year. It's been a long, long journey, but we're making progress. We had sex last week. I took an entirely new approach to it, and it was perhaps some of the best sex of my life.

However, I'm concerned that as soon as my wife gets pregnant again, we'll lose all that progress. I hope to get to a place where we're at 2-4x/wk. It feels futile that all that work might be for nothing. On our family planning timeline, we'd like to get pregnant again in February.

Has anyone else walked this road? What advice do you have? What Scripture speaks to these concerns? I'd like to have at least two more kids, but I don't want to go back to a dead bedroom. The thought honestly makes me feel a little sick. The feelings of rejection and loneliness are still pretty close to home.

Post Information
Title Do I Have a Covert Contract?
Author CarelessBowler5
Upvotes 5
Comments 8
Date 24 December 2019 05:22 AM UTC (1 year ago)
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[–]SkimTheDross2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Raising and leading your big family in a way that glorifies God is a great calling. I sometimes think what it would have been like to have 4 or 5 kids. Wasn’t God’s plan for me.

Maybe you have a covert contract - If we stay at 2 kids, my wife will have sex wit my me.

It’s more like you’re afraid. Afraid that another kid will sack all of your work.

Become a man of high value. Be the awesome fun dad and husband that has a mission. His family is part of that mission. Other men would give their left leg to be you. Other women want you. And your wife knows this and it turns her on.

Be that guy.

[–]Deep_Strength2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy

Skim posted the relevant advice, so I'll approach it from a different angle.

Your wife is equating apples to oranges. Problems in dynamic of headship-submission and love-respect in marriage usually lead to lack of sex and not vice versa. Becoming obese, failing to be the head of the marriage, caving to your wife's demands all the time, and things like this decrease attraction which often leads to less sex. Not the other way around.

This is also a needless worry. Feelings change all the time. This is why you shouldn't take statements based on feelings that seriously.

The main issue with kids is scheduling. Hard to have down time for sex, but it can be done. Everyone has time for the things they deem important.

[–]SpunkyDred0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

apples to oranges

But you can still compare them.

[–]Deep_Strength0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

What's the point?

On the one hand, you have the standard cultural shtick about having kids kills your sex life. Maybe it can if you don't prioritize it.

And on the other hand, you have probable relationship issues (usually straying from Biblical marital roles and responsibilities) that usually end up resulting in a lack of attraction and thus ends up in less sex.

I don't see how they're comparable really. One is just a lazy cultural excuse and one dives deep into probable causes.

[–]AlanNoles2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy

I have this thought as well all the time. My wife wants a baby so bad. I do as well but this thought makes me not want them as well at times.

I saw this on MRP a while back so it’s not mine. But it’s a great post.

[FR]Seduction Strategy in the Context of Married with Two or More Kids

Preface: I do not believe that I have all the answers. This is an account of what I've learned, and my intention in posting this is to generate a discussion with men in my demographic. These are the things that have worked most consistently with my wife (a high SMV, high intelligence, hard working woman). I have been married for just under a decade and my three children are all under seven years of age - the youngest being two, a toddler. Wife is SAHM. You need to keep this context in mind when reading this FR and decide if it is relevant to your situation.

Seduction strategy within the context of a marriage with two or more small children deserves its own post because adding children to you and your wife's relationship, by default, also adds layers of complication and complexity to your marriage. It will change both of you in ways that are sometimes horrifying but also critical to your development as human beings. Learning to care for others more than you care for yourself is a vital step in your evolution as an individual, and, I would argue, is only truly possible when you have become the best possible version of yourself.

Your objective in this hostile environment, should you choose to accept it, is to bring your wife back from a caregiver mentality to the sexual nymphomaniac you know that she is capable of being - to shatter the soul-sucking, dry-vagina "Mommy Mode" mentality. You must shed your identity as BETA-Billy with your disgusting dad bod and carpal tunnel wrist and become the Alpha and Omega. Your tool shall be a goddamn 10 pound hammer with which you will smash the diseased mental state that your neurotic children have instilled in your beautiful wife and bring her back to the light which just so happens to be innundated with your other tool and copious amounts of semen. You should plan on having to do this every time you want to initiate sex with her until your children grow to a certain age where they are largely able to care for themselves.

If MRP is Hard Mode, then MRP +2 or more children is Insane Mode. Ludicrous speed in action.

How do we do this?

First thing's first: SAHM with two or more children is brutal. I can easily handle all three of my children on my own for the weekend, maybe even a week, but having complete ownership of their lives all day every day for years on end can quickly become a bleak existence. The single greatest thing you can do to create a sexual environment in these circumstances is to lead, support your wife in her plight with the children, and take active steps to make her feel less like a mother and more like a woman / individual.

Important note: If you are not a high-SMV man, if you are not actively Gaming (strong passive dread and active flirtation in this context) your wife, if your kino is shit, if you are not exciting, if you are not dating your wife, if you are not seeing what needs to be done in and around the house and doing it, if you are not managing the finances, if you are not lifting and engaging in hobbies, you have little to no chance of creating sexual feelings in your SAHM wife. This is the reason that MRP +2 or more children is Insane Mode. Your baseline must be the complete package: on point, titanium stardust, "one-hunnid", whatever you want to call it. Your MAP should be all Greens all the time. You must become God himself to the Egyptians that are your family ... bestowing mana upon them even though they may not deserve it.

Let's break it down:

By default, women become consumed with their children. SAHM to two or more children is soul-crushing work from 7:00AM to 7:00PM (later for some of you) all day every day. There are no breaks, there are no holidays (unless you actively create them for your wife). It is your duty to insure than your wife does not become enslaved to your children. Some women are better about this than others, but all women will trend toward prioritizing the children above the marriage. This is hard-wired into their being. Therefore, your value must be so high that you are able to snap her out of this natural inclination.

When my wife became a SAHM her needs were re-prioritized. Committment certainly still ranked high on the list, but attention and affection dropped off quickly. Why? Because she has three children crawling all over her all day every day. She gets too much attention and affection from the kids. My attention and affection devolved into "one more thing" she had to deal with unless it was adding value to her life (ie non-sexually). The things that I offered her in our pre-progeny relationship no longer held as much value.

So what's the solution? How do you compensate for this? YMMV. Some men will say dread, and I agree that passive dread has its place in this context because its end is to improve you into a high-quality man, to nail all of the "Important Notes" listed above.

Ultimately, answering this question is precisely what adds another layer of difficulty to MRP Insane Mode. Start by internalizing the fact that your baseline with your wife (all wives) must be of high-SMV and hitting the mark on all of the qualities listed in the "Important Note" above in order for you to even have a fighting chance at sex in an environment with 2+ small children. I have had the most success in seducing my wife at this phase in our lives when I'm hitting on all cylinders personally, and dating my wife consistently. I'm lucky in that it is a simple solution to a complex problem for me. The thing that has suffered most in our relationship since having children is our connection to each other. Game (flirting and kino) and dates are sure-fire ways to bring us back to where we were before we chose to become parents. What is it in your relationship with your wife that can achieve the same effect?

Which brings us to the crux of the issue:

You should be able to answer this very important question early on: What is sex with your wife worth to you? Is it worth building a MAP chock-full of Greens? Is it worth the toil in the gym to gain the chiseled abs that might, but not always, tip the scales in your favor after your wife has spent a hellacious day with a teething two-year-old? Is it worth extended kino despite the fact that you know you aren't getting laid because one of your eco-terrorists has infected your wife with the latest round of green snot? These are the simple questions that will determine whether you really want sex with your wife, at this point in your lives, or not.

If you choose yes, then you know what needs to be done. You know your wife's heart, and you know whether she is worth the effort or not. Guard yourself for the next three years because rearing children from the newborn age through about three or four is brutal. It will change your wife's temperament in ways that you will not understand, but one day this phase of your life will end. Relish that truth when you start to lose sight of the light at the end of the tunnel. Get to work.

If you choose no, then I cannot help you. Seek advice elsewhere.

[–]CarelessBowler5[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

That was super helpful. This is all exactly true. I have discovered that the bar is much higher for me than a lot of married guys because my wife is a SAHM with two little kids.

When I'm in point, things are good. When I am not, ain't no interest.

It's a crucible. But I believe I'm going to be a much better man in the log run by having endured it.

[–]AlanNoles0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

You have kids? I did not know that.

[–]CarelessBowler5[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

1yo girl and 3yo boy

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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