Toxic masculinity

dbhmilolmgrjk · 2021-01-01T20:41:50+00:00

In my experience women want a man just emotional enough that he can empathize with her emotions, but not have any emotional baggage of his own.

PrincessFKNPeach · 2021-01-01T17:51:12+00:00

Women who find it unattractive when men express human emotions need therapy

octocombo · 2021-01-01T22:33:27+00:00

Let's draw a few distinctions that often are missing from this conversation:

There are women who are turned off by men showing their emotions, and there are women who say that men should show their emotions. These groups have some overlap, but there's also significant non-overlap. On the whole, women who say men should show their emotions are a vocal minority, and women who are turned off by men showing their emotions are a less-vocal majority, and this sends frustrating mixed messages to men because what they experience is mostly women who are turned off by crying whereas what they hear in discourse is that they should be allowed to cry.
What women mean when they say men should be able to cry and show emotions is often different from what men understand when they hear these comments. Women usually mean, "men should be allowed to cry when they feel like it, and men SHOULD cry when they're sad and in situations that I personally think are upsetting, but crying and seeking comfort from me for reasons I personally think are stupid is annoying." What men often understand is more like, "men should cry whenever they feel sad." It's not about building up masculinity points and cashing them in to cry, it's about crying in situations that she personally thinks are worth crying over. If a guy breaks down weeping in the supermarket because his favorite brand of cereal is out of stock, that's going to be unattractive to nearly all women. If a guy cries when he hears that a close friend has died, that is going to make him more relatable/compassionate to nearly all women and for many women those features are attractive. If he cries when he gets home because someone else got the promotion he was angling for, he's more likely to get a sympathetic response than a guy who cries over cereal but less likely than a guy who cries over a friend's death, it depends on the particular values of the woman in question. In terms of the impact on a man's sexual attractiveness, it's less about cashing in masculinity points to cry and more about crying in situations she thinks are appropriate.
While a man is crying and right after, a woman's libido in the moment is going to be secondary to the instinct to comfort, and most women don't think of sex as a way to comfort someone. Even women who will long-term find a man equally attractive or more attractive after seeing him cry will in the short term not want sex.
A lot of women say things like "men should cry when they feel the need to" because they think society overall would be better off if this was how men behaved and not because they personally are attracted to men who are less stoic. Women aren't immune from sexism and have often subconsciously absorbed society's values even if they consciously think those values are toxic. Attraction tends to be more subconscious while what a person says tends to be more of a conscious process, so these might not always align.

Nofap_129 · 2021-01-01T19:42:31+00:00

This generally fits my experiences. The tacit expectation seems to be that men will curate their emotional experiences so they can be a woman's "rock" and anything that threatens that impression makes them less desirable.

This is why men need close friendships outside of their relationships. Also why counselling needs to be less stigmatized and more readily accessible.

jdobrila · 2021-01-01T17:35:37+00:00

That's not a hill on PPD, everyone knows this

Even bloops backpedaled so far as to admit men need to have some nonsensical "emotional vulnerability tokens" or something

JohnDoe721 · 2021-01-01T17:37:13+00:00

Then why are feminist so hell bent on destroying masculinity, if thats what they crave?

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anonymousein · 2021-01-08T04:47:08+00:00

I don’t think this is true in all cases. I have a son and whenever he cries, I just give him lots of cuddles and get him to talk about whatever is upsetting him. He’s turning 13 this year and isn’t afraid to express his emotions and I love that he can do that.

I’ve always comforted men and women when they cry. Just cuddle them and let them get it all out and I just listen whilst they do. After they’ve recovered themselves a bit, then I talk to them about the issue and help them either find a way to resolve it, or just let them know that what they’re feeling is normal and ok.

It’s only human to have feelings and efforts to repress them, just make things worse over time. No one should be ashamed of crying, our bodies literally built it to be a release valve.

MajesticMaple · 2021-01-01T17:47:24+00:00

pretend to want men to be expressive with their emotions and say its ok for them to cry because its the right thing to do.

I've never heard a woman say they find a crying man sexier or something, it's not about sexual preference. Ussuallly they say stuff like this they mean that they think it would be better for society (e.g. less crime, less substance abuse, more men getting needed therapy etc etc). You can simultaneously go after hyper secure guys sexually while generally encouraging insecure guys to be open with their feelings and seek help. It doesn't mean that if the insecure guy is open with his feelings he will be more attractive. Idk why some people on here think everything is about romance/sex.

Title	Toxic masculinity
Author	Nofap_129
Upvotes	7
Comments	34
Date	January 1, 2021 5:34 PM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/kof7rr/toxic_masculinity/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/toxic-masculinity.352423 https://theredarchive.com/post/352423

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