Why do so many men from failed marriages don't be more alpha before the divorce

monsieurhire2 · 2015-09-09T20:49:49+00:00

Well, your argument assumes the wife married the husband because she wanted an alpha, when in fact, she wanted a beta provider to exploit and dominate. You're assuming that the wife is a sane, rational actor who is justifiably upset with her "weak" husband, when really his weakness is in part due to her constant castrating behavior, and also tacked on to the castrating behavior that goes on in most workplaces, which is extension of the castration that happens in the school system, and in society in general.

Let's look at all the ways men are castrated:

They have to do time in school so they get a job so they can get money to attract a woman;
They have to take orders at their jobs from superiors;
They have to fork over a chunk of their money to the government every year;
They are pressured to buy stuff they can't make themselves, and may not even want, or in any case, they'd want a simpler version, in order to not become an outcast in society, namely, a house, a car, clothing, etc. This further depletes their money and therefore their freedom;
They're pressured to pursue women who are indoctrinated to shit on them;
Religion constantly shames their sexuality;
The media shames their sexuality;
Consumer goods are primarily directed at women;

I could go on with more ways, but you get the idea.

Anyway, so if a woman marries a beta, she basically is expecting a slave. Maybe she satiated her lusts in her teens and twenties and isn't interested in sex much anymore, maybe in part because she's more interested in food and television. Or maybe she has an alpha or two on the side. The beta's job is to provide and do what he's told, not start irritating her by trying to assert himself in some meaningful way that could threaten her provision, like, hang out with his single friends, not go to Church to be brainwashed on a weekly basis into being faithful to her, not develop some resource-draining hobby that could divert money away from granite counter-tops payments.

If a beta provider tries to alpha up, he may find his wife being horrified by it, because he's not staying in his predictable place, and that means he could escape her control.

Now, if the wife actually wants an alpha, she'll welcome it. But some wives actually want a whipped beta; it feels safer for them. Also, betas have low expectations. If you're a fat pig, sure, you'll be happy briefly if your fat pig husband loses weight, but then you'll start to worry that he'll run off with a thin woman, and you sure as hell can't be bothered losing weight. Plus, you know you can always fuck thin guys. Wait. What am I saying? A fat pig in the West ONLY dates thin guys. Albeit, usually they're loser thin guys. In that case, the analogy would be that the thin guy would have to become cooler or more assertive.

insickness · 2015-09-09T21:02:48+00:00

Most men improve with women between relationships, not within a relationship. When you are in a relationship, you are very attached to a woman. It's difficult to change your behavior if you've been acting a certain way. If your woman sees you as a weak beta loser, it is very difficult to change her perception of you. It is much easier to meet a new woman who has no perception of you as a beta and practice being alpha. That new woman is much more likely to 'believe' the way you're acting. First impressions are lasting.

oldredpillhardmode · 2015-09-09T20:37:34+00:00

Thanks for your perspective,

you married your wife 30 years ago. This was LIGHTYEARS from where we're now. And, good for you.

My wife never reacted positivley to my implementation of TRP, never reacted to any form of dread. When I realized that I actually don't need anything from her and I don't need her at all and my marriage sucks balls... she filed for divorce.

the_red_scimitar · 2015-09-09T22:30:10+00:00

Well, this is literally getting all the love it deserves.

Simple answer to an exceedingly stupid question, somewhat illiterately worded: Because you didn't read a single thing about TRP, don't know what the feminist imperative nor agenda are, and generally, have nothing to offer here.

DistantWinter · 2015-09-10T00:29:11+00:00

I'll answer your question as it's presented.

From this point on when I say my wife I mean my ex. I was never married, but we were together 15 years and have three children.

I fell into the beta roll at the very end of my relationship. It was my downfall. I watched the children while she worked at night. I cooked, cleaned, and raised the children putting my wants and needs last. I was always alone even with a house full of people.

I did most things alpha for years, but it became tiresome. After many years together it was becoming apparent I was with a grown child. Someone who never admitted fault. Never could make a decision, but would criticize every single move or decision I made. Constant shit tests. It started to fill me with anxiety and crept into my psyche. Simply talking became a contest of if I could finish before I was cut off and talked over. I became whiny and soft, depressed and drinking waaaay too much to cope.

My wife had legitimately diagnosed mental condition, but it doesn't excuse my bitch behavior at the end.

You say:

I don't put up with my wife acting like a 2 year old. When she starts displaying AWALT characteristics I point it out to her and if necessary, discipline her appropriately. This includes firm spankings as necessary. I also do not let her get bored, tired, disinterested in me. Pull her hair, tie her up, treat her like a whore and importantly, reward her for positive behavior. Make sure she knows you have options (be careful with this) and she will be a great, loyal wife.

When I wanted to go out; I did. When I wanted to study for my certifications; I did. When I wanted to hang with the guys; I did. Drink; done. Golf; done and I was a family man and respectable partner when all was done. My children came first, I came second and she came third, because I expected her to be a responsible self contained adult.

I did all of this up until she walked away. It got weird. I felt like I was raping my wife at times and was taking care of another child during the down times. I had three children to look after and another was just more work. Explaining social norms to a grown woman was exhausting and begging for respect from my wife was getting stupid. Arguing over common logic became a way to bond. It was sick.

When you are in the center of the shit storm you don't see the shit flying around you. I didn't take a step back and analyze my position. I lost frame and looked to her for the answers. In the end I was at the verge of tears just asking why? Why wouldn't she talk to me, why wouldn't she spend time with me, why did she argue with everything I said or did, why this, why that, why blah, blah... This was when it was over. She had swung to a lower shit covered branch and was ready for an exit.

Keeping frame wouldn't have saved that relationship. One cannot make sense out of insanity. It's taken me a long time to realize this and I'm still coming to terms with a lot of what happened over the years. I am a man and I cannot fix that kind of broken.

One thing that has helped me is this forum. It wasn't complaining to my friends. It wasn't the hours of therapy and crying. Not the forums that encouraged you to wait for your wayward wife (wtf?) or gave you validation for your decisions.

It was this place showing that one needs to self reflect, accept your faults. Work to be better than before and be stoic in times of chaos. I've read the side bar many times and each time something else stands out depending on where I am in my healing. Once my mind was ready to absorb the information many things stood out. I'm not overtly jaded; just starting to understand social dynamics better.

Hope this answered your question as it was presented.

TRPWay2 · 2015-09-10T00:43:11+00:00

Obviously after swallowing the pill, much is revealed to the married man and the marriage may no longer be desirable or tenable. The married red-piller now realizes the disastrous choice he may have made in a bride-- white knighting some crazy or broken slut, or pairing up with an alpha feminist. His vision cleared from blue-haze, he now sees the myriad ways she controls him, saps his energy, and undermines his confidence, to keep him beta. He learns about AWALT, alpha widows, and may even find evidence that she's cheating emotionally or physically. What then? Hard more indeed.

Suravira · 2015-09-09T21:18:17+00:00

Many of them have been beaten down by society into thinking that acting like a beta will fix all their marital problems, and that girls want betas, so discussing their feelings, buying flower and chocolates and generally pandering to them will get them tingling, so when it doesn't work they try it harder, because society and other women have told them that's what they want, so it becomes a vicious cycle.

Married men who have found TRP are doing well or have moved on because they can get a better woman.

On a side note

I point it out to her and if necessary, discipline her appropriately. This includes firm spankings as necessary, Pull her hair, tie her up, treat her like a whore

Are you doing this sexually? because if so it becomes a reward so it shouldn't be when she's acting up, because she'll act up even when she doesn'#t want to just so you'll do that. If it's not sexually you need to be careful because you'll end up on the wrong side of the law, even if it's not so applicable to you, it's very much so for young men today where feminism has made clear exactly where women now have stronger powers in the relationship, since being beaten requires general consent (at least where I live, might be fully illegal elsewhere, I know in America there was one guy who went on a massacre or set off a bomb because something happened with his wife then he wasn't allowed to see her unconstitutionally, and she didn't want the divorce either she was just co-operating with police as she was taught to).

yummyluckycharms · 2015-09-09T23:51:21+00:00

The problem with dread game is that once you are married, it ceases to have power.

Option A: change or I'll cheat on you and we get a divorce Option B: dont change and we get a divorce

Divorce means she'll take everything you own and you'll never see your kids. I dont think you have to be an expert in game theory to see that a guy has everything to lose, and she has everything to gain.

bacdafucoff · 2015-09-10T00:18:18+00:00

Men aren't taught this in my experience. They either know it naturally or have to learn it and that info wasn't readily available before the internet if you didn't have a strong father figure.

Anyways, your post is on point. Women want real men, and regardless of what society says men are rough. We are not nice all the time. We actually might be rude, but it's for a purpose. They understand that and can appreciate it.

There really should be education for people looking at marriage. I think men, women, and society could benefit from it.

doubleplustwo · 2015-09-10T00:58:09+00:00

I think you answered your own question.

sardinemanR · 2015-09-10T02:56:16+00:00

I don't understand people who claim they are emotionless machines for 30+ years straight that never "lose frame" or show humanity.

I'm widely thought of as the "toughest guy I know" by pretty much everyone I know. I've traveled the world, fought at the amateur level, been a soldier etc.

But I actually still have a heart, and I have feelings. I can be broken. I can feel sad or depressed, unwanted and unloved. I just do not understand people that do not feel any of those things.

Do you really not have any emotions whatsoever? I would say that is high level sociopathy in that case. There are levels of sociopaths, that would realistically be at the very top.

Emotions are not female specific. They are what make us HUMAN. A man that lacks all emotion is no human being. I personally don't want to be anywhere near someone that tells me that. I don't trust someone like that.

I will never get married because the way society has things set up, I will be gutted both emotionally and financially in that case. I simply can not go 30+ years as an unfeeling rock.

So I stay unmarried, and I pretty much exclusively spin plates. My plates never see me on a down period because I just boot them out or leave (usually I leave, I don't want them in my home) and I have multiple plates anyway so it doesn't matter.

But this idea that you just need to man up and be "alpha" and "hold frame" for a marriage, and somehow I would want a marriage that way, I don't get it. What would be in it for me? Women are sexually attractive from about 16-26, and then lesser attractiveness maybe to right around 35. So I'd try so hard for a depreciating asset that I have no interest in? That is odd to me.

InflatableRaft · 2015-09-10T03:41:11+00:00

It's only after you've lost everything that you're free to do anything.

IamAwaken · 2015-09-10T00:35:29+00:00

My answer is unfortunately nasty....

some men can't learn or change even when answers are given to them. Maybe even most men. Changing your fundamental person is actually hard for most, but easy for some. It'd be like changing sexual orientation by willpower and self brainwashing AS AN EXAMPLE.

If you don't believe this then I must ask... Do you often change people in real life? Does a slut become a loyal mother easy? Women and men are still humans. We don't change easy even with a conscious effort and most don't make that effort even when they think they are "trying."

Title	Why do so many men from failed marriages don't be more alpha before the divorce
Author	oldredpillhardmode
Upvotes	0
Comments	29
Date	September 9, 2015 8:32 PM UTC (10 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/TheRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/3kakfy/why_do_so_many_men_from_failed_marriages_dont_be/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/TheRedPill/why-do-so-many-men-from-failed-marriages-dont-be.36255 https://theredarchive.com/post/36255

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