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Men are the shallow ones though

ClowntownDenisen1234

December 19, 2019

216 upvotes

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Post Information

Title	Men are the shallow ones though
Author	ClowntownDenisen1234
Upvotes	216
Comments	49
Date	December 19, 2019 12:03 AM UTC (6 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MGTOW
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MGTOW/comments/eckxhv/men_are_the_shallow_ones_though/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MGTOW/men-are-the-shallow-ones-though.382379 https://theredarchive.com/post/382379

Comments

[–]souris10137 points38 points39 points 6 years ago (21 children) | Copy Link

[–]Datingisnotfun99939 points40 points41 points 6 years ago (20 children) | Copy Link

[–]six-twosix24 points25 points26 points 6 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]2135464165468412 points 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]kanyefoprez20200 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]six-twosix0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

"Wait are you saying men are capable of love and women are not?" No, both are capable of love, however, their loves have different definitions. This is not my personal opinion, there is already empirical evidence to support my claims.

For example, Women's degree of love and affection is dependent on the man's income, if a man loses his job, he's more prone to be divorced by his wife, etc. On the other hand, a man's love and affection is not based on the woman's wealth, and if she loses her job, she won't have a higher chance of being divorced by him.

Based on the OKcupid, and Tinder statistics, women deem only 20% of men as average looking and above, while 80% are below average looking. Men on the other hand have a more realistic view, rating 50% of women as average looking and below, and the other 50 as average looking and above. This means that it is not women with the unrealistic expectations on beauty, but men. This is actually what drives the divorce rates, take a look: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vqRbScCIPU

This is just the outward appearance. Women will often say that they want a man who is outgoing, confident, a man who takes the lead, etc, etc. Not only do most women have an unrealistic view when it comes to looks, but also an unrealistic view when it comes to a man's personality and character. Men don't do this.

In other words, a man will not judge a woman based on social class or economic power, he'll have a reasonable view on her outward appearance and will respect her as an individual when it comes to her personality and character. Women are the complete opposite. In other words, a Duke will give the stable girl a chance, while a Duchess could care less if the stable boy died in a fire.

If the saying "Love knows no bounds" is true, then it is only applicable to men. A man's love and affection will depend on how the woman treats him, she doesn't need give him a billion dollar ring for him to appreciate her, for the man, it's the thought that counts. A woman's love and affection however is based on the man's social status and economic power. For her its the price of the gift that counts, not your thoughts. They both express love, but their love is based on two very different things.

[–]kanyefoprez20200 points1 point2 points 6 years ago* (3 children) | Copy Link

Thanks for explaining things clearly, I see your point. My question is now: isn’t perpetuating the preexisting stereotype of women (that I see on this upvoted on this sub all the time) only making the problem worse. It’s like not wanting them to have total independence so that they’ll need a man and settle. But doesn’t creating a system in which someone will be forced to love you mean that the love itself is manipulated and therefore invalid? It’s eliminating any possibility of a genuine love because a love that’s manipulated isn’t really love.

Also, what about relationships where the husband is dealing with unemployment, terminal illness, etc. and the woman decides to see it through? Or relationships where the woman has just as much, if not more, economical power.

Like sure some statistics may show that woman are more influenced by appearance or wealth, but that doesn’t mean that it applies to every single woman. Why create a system that destroys any opportunity for a woman to genuinely love you?
I don’t mean to bash your comment, because it seems well thought out, I guess there’s just something I don’t get.

EDIT: I didn’t address that you said woman are capable of love. It seems like the kind of love you’re referring to is an immature “need love”, like the love a child has for their mother. The kind of love I’m referring to is what most people would consider a genuine, ‘selfless’ love (though I don’t think any love is 100% selfless).

[–]six-twosix0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

This will be a bit long so be ready. To make this understandable I'm going to have to answer your comment bottom up. (You can skip the links and view them later)

You're right when you say no love is 100% selfless, the definition of unconditional love, as we like to portray it in movies, does not exist in human beings. We may very well try, but it'll never be attained. Usually, such a person that tries to express such a love ends up suffering, hated or killed.

You're also on point when you say that the love I'm referring to is more like the love a child has to a parent, but as we know it's very unlike it, since a child won't leave his or her parents due to unemployment and so on. Nevertheless, this parent to child love is what women have as a collective propagated and condoned. They claim to want to be a man's equal but their actions prove otherwise, making themselves look younger, cuter, acting childlike and so forth.

For what purpose you may ask? Well. As you know, adult males and females due to their biology will react towards a child differently than they would an adult, if a child cries, our bodies actually release hormones, making us more susceptible to appease and help the child. Without writing an essay on this phenomenon, to summarize, children have certain privileges that we as adults give them. Such as overlooking their faults, giving them a pass for certain actions, lighter punishments and so on. These are all benefits that women want as well. They want the best of both worlds without the responsibilities of neither.

(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2ZrOBmsEkc (2:31- 2:55) Links are only to show a point)

I know it's hard to believe but think about it. Why would you as a woman, go through the mental fortitude of studying like your life depends on it (cause it does), to then be treated like a slave both physically and mentally at a job that you hate for 10+ hours a day, to then come home and force yourself to prepare for the next day when you'll repeat the cycle over and over again. And I'm not talking about the 21st century here, but the backbreaking jobs that were done during the industrial revolution and the beginning of the information age. Why go through all that when you can just have someone do it for you? Indeed, wives of millionares live better lives that the millionares themselves. Even the wife of a mechanic in India will live a better far more comfortable life than the husband.

This has gotten so out of hand that a woman will receive lighter sentences for the same crime as a man, her innocence will be presupposed even before she has entered court. It's gotten so bad that the line "Women and children" first, has literally become, women first, children second. During the Titanic, as a percentage, more children died than women. During the wars in Afghanistan and Iran, men died the most, followed by children, and then women.

(I'm too lazy to find the statistics so just see this video from 15:57 - 18:36 if interested (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fx-3lK_6ZQc) The youtuber shows and links the statistics.)

Not this is where I answer your questions.

Scientifically speaking, men are supposed to serve women and make their lives easier due to women being less physically and mentally able, specially while pregnant. This created two different roles, an active one, and a passive one. The man would risk his life to hunt and gather, while the woman was to cook the food and take care of the children.

This is of course extremely unfair to the person risking it's life, so nature tried to balanced it with a drug, sex, to keep the bond with the woman, and parental hormones, to keep the bond with the children. Women in those times had to actually please their husbands, lest he abandons her and takes care of the offspring himself. Later on, society would balanced further by giving men more privileges and making sure that each gender upheld their duties. And thus we come into our society. The only point in history in which women are free to enjoy the privileges without the responsibilities.

"isn’t perpetuating the preexisting stereotype of women (that I see on this upvoted on this sub all the time) only making the problem worse. It’s like not wanting them to have total independence so that they’ll need a man and settle."

- It's actually the other way around. Men's revenge to women is to give them their independence, meaning that they'll be subject to the same lifestyle as men, and so suffer just as men have. This has resulted in women's unhappiness and further increasing levels of depression since the 1970s while male happiness has actually increased. For a woman today, to have independence is to have the responsibilities that they've avoided for thousands of years. It's quite ironic, on the outside, it seems feminism is liberating women, but in fact, it's liberating men.

Women cannot be happy with their independence as they're not biologically able to handle it. And every scientific study proves that. Women that live at home with their children and husband are statistically more happy than women who live alone and work full time. It's like forcing a bird to swim. Exceptions to the rule are just that... exceptions.

(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdMkrmBsVp0) - video of women's unhappiness and cause.

"Why create a system that destroys any opportunity for a woman to genuinely love you?"

- My question to you is why did we destroy such a system? Love is not something that you find in the street one day, you don't just fall in love. That's a child's dream. Love is something that is built, through fire and storm, through the joy and the pain.

Past societies knew this, and made it harder and harder for couples to separate. This would force them to accept one another, and work with each other, if it was not possible as lovers, they'd do it as best friends (who fucked each other). With our hook up culture, no fault divorce, and feminism telling women that they'll be happier single, a woman won't be as dedicated to make things work as they did before.

Due to how our brains work, what women think of love, often fades within 4 years of marriage. Once they see other men, they will lust after them and think that she made a mistake, that she never loved the man. So she divorces and remarries only for the same thing to happen again. Men know to differentiate between love and sex, but women don't, if a woman wants to have sex with a man, she'll think she loves him.

True enough, arranged marriages are less prone to divorce, than the marriages we have today: https://www.reference.com/world-view/divorce-rates-arranged-marriages-e0a0b2c6be9a950

If you made it this far I congratulate you, I wish I could sum it up more easily but there's just too much info.

[–]kanyefoprez20200 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

You’re right that is a lot.
I like all the info and stats you’re providing, but it seems the explanation for those stats is just speculation. I.e. arranged marriages have such a low divorce rate because they usually occur in cultures where divorce is strongly looked down upon. I don’t really see how that applies to anything else. If arranged marriages occurred in the modern American society for example, those states would sure as hell be different.
Or increased reports of depression in women. I could just as easily speculate that that’s due to the increase in mental health awareness + the fact that women are much more likely to be vocal about their problems where as men aren’t.

I agree with a lot of the problems you point out and how they’re unfair, I guess I’m just confused again at how going back to a society that led to those problems will solve them. The mindset you’re advocating is actually the cause of a lot of the problems you’re complaining about:
1. Women getting lighter sentences: treating women as different than men is the reason why this problem exists in the first place. The societal bias of women being sweet caregivers, submissive to the man would result in some diffusion of guilt and accountability. Where as the view of men being domineering and in control, would lead to them appearing 100% accountable for their actions. Yes, this bias resulted from biology, but through millenia of societal evolution, the human race has become less subjected to its biology.

2. Higher divorce rates: 70% of divorces today are initiated by women. The dynamic tends to be that the women is upset and the man is emotionally distressed trying to fix things. This creates an obvious power imbalance that feels unfair to the man. But where does this imbalance stem from? Wouldn’t a relationships founded without a power imbalance in the first place solve this problem ?

I find that younger couples—who are more likely to form non-marital but committed relationships—experience more egalitarian partnerships to begin with. When their relationships crumble beyond repair, both partners experience that disintegration. Both are equally likely to address it; and part, if it can’t be healed.

All I’m saying is that men can’t expect to have a power imbalance without it also biting them in the ass.
I can’t stop society from evolving without major human rights violations. So I can either fantasize about a world where 50% of the population is beneath me or adapt with society. I don’t see why the idea of “men going their own way” has anything to do with women really. Maybe other than how to cohabitate with them, or dealing with personal problems on the way to becoming a more independent.

[–]six-twosix0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

When I brought up arranged marriages, it wasn't meant to be a fix to the problem. It was meant to bring up a point. You are right when you say that arranged marriages tend to have a lower rate of divorce as they're often performed in countries which look down on divorce. But that was exactly my point. Without social pressures to stay together and make it work, humans will always pick the easy way out, which is divorce.

Men not being vocal about their issues is not a problem when it comes to research. Men are not vocal about a lot of things, yet we know that most of the homeless are men, most of the workplace deaths are from men, and so on and so forth. In other words, we have a clear view of reality without men having to express their concerns. It is the same way with the research on depression. Mental health is also not an issue as those conducting the research can balance or factor it out.

Women's depression began to rise in the 1970s, this is not a random date, or some random event in history in which women magically became more depressed. This was an event in history in which technology changed the course of human history, with contraceptives, better known as the pill. Which gave rise to the sexual revolution.

As you know women are very different when it comes to men. Scientific research shows that the more sexual partners a woman has the more she loses her ability to pair-bond, to the point that, even if she's found the man she's been looking for, she'll be unable to bond with him due to her brain imbalances. And so, divorce rates, and single motherhood rises, which also rises crime rates due to children growing up without a father which has also been scientifically proved. To not write another essay on this I'll just say that, these stats are not speculations, these statistics are backed up with other statistic and empirical evidence. If you don't wanna hear men say it, then consider listening to Karen Straughan.

"I agree with a lot of the problems you point out and how they’re unfair, I guess I’m just confused again at how going back to a society that led to those problems will solve them. The mindset you’re advocating is actually the cause of a lot of the problems you’re complaining about:"

Good lord no, we don't want to go back to the past. Research already shows that the men of the past had the shittiest deal in the history of shitty deals.

"1. Women getting lighter sentences.."

I can assure you that MGTOWs hate these biases, which is why we shame and ridicule the men who have them.

"2. Higher divorce rates"

There are a lot of reasons why women initiate 70-80% of divorces.

She wins! She gets alimony and child support, possibly the guy's house and half of his wealth, while the man loses half of his shit as well as his kids. She stands to lose nothing, and the man stands to lose half of his wealth.
If she slept around, she's not pair-bonding. In her mind, she thinks she made a mistake. Due to our hook up culture, the vast majority of women will lose their ability to pair bond by age 20.

I could go on and on, in fact, write a whole essay connecting all of them. But I can assure you, divorce rates are not in the rise, because women view marriage as "oppressive". Yes, most relationships will have power imbalances, because that is how we are as a species. However, this is not a cause for the divorce rates.

"All I’m saying is that men can’t expect to have a power imbalance without it also biting them in the ass."

And you're right, you're completely right. After all, more power means more responsibility. But that power has not shifted to women. They're after all the majority of voters, most of them are mothers, while only a small portion of men are fathers... and look at where we are now.

"I can’t stop society from evolving without major human rights violations. So I can either fantasize about a world where 50% of the population is beneath me or adapt with society. I don’t see why the idea of “men going their own way” has anything to do with women really. Maybe other than how to cohabitate with them, or dealing with personal problems on the way to becoming a more independent."

Indeed. MGTOW is not about changing society or women, it's not a movement. It's a philosophy that seeks to change the man. You might have confused us with MRAs. It doesn't have much to do with women other than showing men how unbalanced things are. MGTOW's goal is to have men accept reality for what it is, accept (not hate) women for who they are and move on. Become a better version of yourself, and find happiness not based on others or any external force, but yourself.

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