Edit: This post seems like its setting off some die-hards here. Let me be clear and address a couple complaints right here:

When it comes to this person or literally anyone else, I can put politics aside. This whole post is actually about how divisive politics are retarded. I don't care where they come from. Politics, and people who follow them, are almost always a means to some politicians end. On a philosophical level, It's major weak shit for anyone to respond to poo-flinging feminist rhetoric with more poo-flinging from the other side of the argument i.e. name-calling. If you reject someone's humanity when their politics don't square with yours, how in gods gaping fuck are you better than them? You have no high ground, no credibility. You just have hatred, which is the main thing that twisted feminist rhetoric into the easy target that it is today. Do you want your movement/ideas/philosophies to be defined by emotion, or facts? Your choice, boiz.

Commenters here seem to think that it's a waste of my time to have had this argument. WRONG. It was a valuable learning experience, and I had tons of fun In the process. I have developed so many more ways to talk to someone in the middle of the aisle, or an "undecided" person with hopes that I can share an insight that connects with someone and persuades them- all from friendly debates. Now, I think debating is FUN. You need someone to play devils advocate. You need opponents. Why? Because how else are you going to refine your viewpoint, learn how to explain it better, and discover more about your perspective? You can't expect literally everyone in the world to agree with you. That would be fucking boring.

I discussed oppression with my gf last night. I tried my best to put this down as accurately as possible.

Quick background: Shes getting her masters in counseling psych. I am completing my undergrad in biology, statistics, and psychology and will pursue a graduate degree in epidemiology (public health) after I finish. Shes a die hard New England liberal, and one of her parents is an educator at university and her mom is a licensed healthcare worker. I am an independent from Massachusetts from a working-class family. My mom is a union janitor, and my dad has been absent since I was 13. Anyways:

My girlfriend: Women were oppressed throughout history.

Me: How?

Her: Well for instance women weren't allowed to go to war, it was a boys club

Me: Maybe women didn't want to go to war

Her: Some did. If they weren't being oppressed, why weren't they allowed?

Me: Physiology. Males are, as a matter of fact, larger. Fighting a larger enemy typically ends poorly and it is irresponsible for a culture or tribe to send their weaker population to fight. Also, many women biologically don't want to leave their children, or would have to stop training during a pregnancy. Many men probably wanted to stay home with their friends and the kids but couldn't because they prize the lives of their loves ones and would volunteer to fight, and die, to protect them. Is that not oppression for males? Both genders lost though when they had to get separated from their mates.

Her: Well women are oppressed because they have to bear the pain of childbirth and the responsibility of raising children.

Me: Men aren't responsible for phenomenon of pregnancy! Ok, so gestation periods are 9 months. Wars can last longer, and the laborious responsibilities of hunting, homesteading, and protection endure throughout the lifespan. Fighting aged males typically went out to fight, suffer, die, live in the wilds, and never come home. Men has almost no other viable options but to do this. I wouldn't say men WANTED to go fight, it just ended up being that way because of the needs related to tribal survival. It was miserable for men in different ways, who were also oppressed by their characteristics and circumstances.

Her: But the decision to go to war is and always was mens' choice

Me: Tell that to Vietnam veterans.

Her: Okay so feminism is and always has been about equal rights for men and women

Me: So why is it called feminism?

Her: Huh?

Me: It's like me creating a movement for the renunciation of the social stigma attachment to height, and calling it the "Six-footers club."

Her: I don't know what youre saying

Me: Look, if your movement is based on equality between two groups, why (holding back laughter) would you name it AFTER ONE OF THE TWO GROUPS???

Her, visibly annoyed: Because women have been oppressed throughout history and we have had to come far to get equal rights to men

Me: Are you saying that you are fighting against the past?

Her: No, women face oppression now.

Me: How many rights do men have in the US that women do NOT have?

Her: I guess I men that I don't want to be afraid of going to my car at night and women are victimized so much

Me: Thats a different issue, and not necessarily oppression. Attacks on women by sick men is a mental health issue. No amount of political and ideological posturing is going to stop a deranged pervert from raping someone. This issue needs to be addressed early with discipline, impulse control, and mindfulness training followed by systematic risk assessments, followed by women taking more pragmatic steps to prevent attack such as carrying OC spray, a gun, etc.

Her: Women are also oppressed though because men are the ones in office making decisions about birth control and abortion!

Me: Have you or has anyone you known been involved in a concerted effort to elect a female official to office who will advocate for reproductive rights for women? To speak for you?

Her: Yeah, I voted for hillary

Me: Im not being specific enough. I mean did you canvas or volunteer for a politician locally, who will effect changes in this state?

Her: Well my friend Tim did...

Me: (interrupts with a chortle). Tim? Okay have you?

Her: No I haven't.

Me: Okay. Well, I think women have more control over their reproductive outcomes than men. I mean, a women can terminate a pregnancy if she wants but the guy has no say. Thats bullshit.

Her: No its not! Guys aren't need to make the baby

Me: Really?

Her: You know what I mean. But if a women cant afford the baby or something she should be able to abort it.

Me: Look at literally everyone in poverty who has kids. Could they afford them? Is not "having enough money" really a good enough reason to terminate a human life? I have great news for our prisons, mental hospitals, assisted living facilities, special needs group homes, and nursing homes: If you're in the red you can literally just fucking kill the pricks to save some dough. They'll greet me with flowers.

Her: That's not what I'm saying! There's no quality of life for a child when parents cant afford them and the mother, since she is the one who is actually carrying the child, should be able to make that call.

me: What if woman is pregnant. She doesn't work, and the husband does but he doesn't want the child on the grounds that he cant afford it. Does mom get to decide to have the kid? Your previous argument would say that mom doesnt, and that the financial difficulties are the key determining factor.

Her: No, I never said that! I am saying that the mom should make the choice of whether to keep the child. It shouldnt be up to the dad.

Me: Okay. Lets look at a case study. My friend Dan makes about 75k a year. Through the course of his work, he met his gf, single mom and marginally employed. She got pregnant. Dan doesnt want kid, but mom did. Mom kept the child

Her: As was her right to do so

Me: Mom stopped working to take care of the kids, one of whom is Dan's which he initially didn't want. Lets say they break up. Mom stops working, and Dan keeps his job. Is it fair to Dan that his money and his kid go to the mom? Custody battles almost NEVER end with paternal guardianship. Most courts will say "well shit dads at work so send the kid to moms where shell be to watch them all the time." Now Dan is stuck paying for child support for a kid he can't see nearly as often as he wants to because he has to work extra to support himself, his kid, his ex, and her kid.

Her: It is absolutely fair because people he chose to have sex

Me: [facepalm] so sex equals 18 years of wage garnishment?

Her: Yes! this is why they have birth control.

Me: What he used a condom and it broke, or what if she purposefully stopped taking birth control.

Her: Sex is to reproduce. They both knew that there is a chance that they would make a baby.

Me: This is definitely the type of "equal treatment" feminism offers. Feminism simply argues that all men are ignorant of female problems while refusing to accept the validity of male issues or assume that they, the superior gender, understand males at their level.

Her: Well you aren't understanding it then

Me: Exactly! I'm not supposed to, because your "equal rights" ideology is actually thinly-veiled female supremacy. It is just one of the heads on the identity politics hydra. Any type of -ism philosophy is corrosive, divisive, and it creates fissures between groups with asinine self-definitions and by granting or witholding tokens in a victim economy. Nazism, communism, progressivism, feminism, conservatism... theyre all systems of self definition that are propagated by people who simply want to persuade you to vote for them so that they can fulfill their own self interest!

Her: Hmm...

Me: They appeal to ones' sense of identity and harp on the individual struggles to ingrain themselves into ther audiences self-concept via confirmation bias: "Hillary clinton said that white men are the cause of my problems and I have problems. Shes right!" I think that these philosophies are almost entirely dogshit. They do nothing but make people hate each other. If you want to help other people through your career, don't look through a filter like feminism... do it because people are inherently valuable and because you enjoy helping them.

Her: well they better not make me pay for birth control because that's my right -

me: WAIT you think that you have the RIGHT to FORCE people and a company to GIVE YOU a product that they spend time, money, and energy making? Do you also believe in slavery?

Her: Babe, it's late I gotta go to bed. Night! hangs up

Me: :|