Feminist soyboys now destroying Stack Overflow

the_unseen_one · 2018-04-27T11:25:08+00:00

“Well, the nice thing about problems that relate to how people feel is that finding the truth is easy. Feelings have no “technically correct.” They’re just what the feeler is telling you. When someone tells you how they feel, you can pack up your magnifying glass and clue kit, cuz that’s the answer. You’re done. And a lot of devs feel like Stack Overflow is an intimidating, unwelcoming place. We know because they tell us.”

For fucks sake. Even technical knowledge bases are feelz driven now?

DangZagnut · 2018-04-27T12:16:08+00:00

I've never noticed shit there. I goggle some code I have a question about, and SO links will come up with a dozen or so responses and code snippets over varying qualities. Even when I look into the comments that aren't answers I'm not seeing bunch of youtube style shit posts.

What are they talking about? And how to they know that PoC are having a problem there? The code snippets don't use racist variable names. WTF is going on over there?

"We know because our users tell us", no you don't. You are just making shit up, or are being preemptively false flagged. Can we see examples of all these racist shit posts in there? Because I've used a lot of SO and never once seen any "You know (((this))) code is part of the (((global power elite)))." Or, "You dumb fuck, you must be a n***** to code like that."

Has anyone objectively seen this anywhere?

And who is whining? Who is writing SO and saying, "I didn't get the answer I wanted cuz they're all racisss and sexiss?"

ThanatopsisRex · 2018-04-27T13:01:07+00:00

Jay Hanlon

EVP of Culture and Experience

The fact that this job exists is indicative of the real problem.

MushroomBirthdayCake · 2018-04-27T11:51:53+00:00

Wasn’t the original point of SO to just answer the damn question?

It was created to accumulate most programming knowledge in one place because the rest of the internet fragments it into obscure forums and obtuse documentation with useless search engines.

ThanatopsisRex · 2018-04-27T11:04:15+00:00

If you're going in tech, better start learning Mandarin.

FlyingSexistPig · 2018-04-27T13:03:47+00:00

There are no women on the internet.

There are no people of color on the internet.

Take your victimhood elsewhere.

enjoy_life88 · 2018-04-27T12:50:55+00:00

I've never, ever seen anything remotely hostile on stackoverflow.

Ninja_Fox_ · 2018-04-27T14:35:30+00:00

They actually do come up with some good points here:

But it’s built on mechanics and norms that push people away if they don’t know the ins-and-outs. Too often, someone comes here to ask a question, only to be told that they did it wrong. They get snarky or condescending comments for not explaining what they’ve tried (that didn’t work). They get an answer… but the answerer gets scolded for “encouraging ‘low-quality’ questions.” They get downvoted, but don’t know why, or called lazy for not speaking English fluently. Or sometimes, everything actually goes well, and they get an answer! So they thank the poster… only to be told that on Stack Overflow, “please” and “thank you” are considered noise

This is quite true, one solution could be to add tooltips for new users, such as "Please don't reply to just say 'Thanks', that's what the upvote button is for".

After that though, it mainly goes downhill.

especially the idea that women and people of color felt particularly unwelcome

No, and no? Seriously, I've used the site since its inception, and I've never seen a single racist or sexist comment, by any standard, and I tend to dig deeply in comments for whatever reason (boredom?).

but we struggle the hardest to recognize that we are (unintentionally) biased ourselves

That's true, and that's why feminism is still a thing. They don't realize how privileged they are. But going back to your point, if there are virtually no sexist/racist comments, there's virtually no bias going on against women/people of color/attack helicopters. That's kind of common sense, no?

making people feel left out is a deep personal fear of mine

So don't mess up the site by adding SJW politics.

We are one of the only large sites where it’s practically impossible to find a single slur – our community takes them down in minutes

So ... what's this against women and people of color then?

We don’t tolerate our female users being called “sweetie” or getting hit on

Good, this is a technical site, not a dating site. Anything personal, positive or negative, to anyone, shouldn't be tolerated.

But we weren’t listening

Uhh...

Many people, especially those in marginalized groups do feel less welcome. We know because they tell us.

Alright, then, if your problem is that you weren't listening, then listen: People in marginalized groups are going to complain that everything bad that happens their way is because they're in a marginalized group. They don't realize that #1 most people don't even know that you're from a marginalized group (at least on StackOverflow), and #2 most people that do know, don't give a shit. Women and whatever else like to feel like victims, because it means everyone's going to be nice to them, give them nice things, and it gives them a reason to fuel their own sexist/racist tendencies. Whatever negative happens to them, they'll always associate it with "It's because you're a sexist". No. I've experienced many unfriendly remarks as well on StackOverflow, some of which were personal (and, by the way, unlike the sexist/racist comments, weren't taken down), and I'm a so-called "privileged" person. It's universal.

We felt protective of our current users, because we know they come here to teach, and most of them are fighters for good most of the time.

Are you trying to apologize for that? That's a good thing.

Maybe it’s time we re-visited things like our “no pleases or thank yous’” rule

No! Allow comments like "This works", because that's genuinely useful. Pleases and Thank yous just make things harder to sift through. It's like +1's on github. There's a reason for the like button, it doesn't spam half the ticket.

Let’s shift from “don’t be an asshole” to “be welcoming.” ... “Be welcoming, be patient, … and don’t expect new users to know all the rules — they don’t.”

Actually this I agree with. It'll help new users get used to the rules quicker anyways.

Condescension and sarcasm have been reluctantly tolerated in comments for too long

Also this, as I wrote above, StackOverflow should be informational, not personal.

Let’s reject the false dichotomy between quality and kindness

I kind of agree, kind of disagree. It should be informational, not personal. So if it includes unkindness (sarcasm etc.), I agree, it's not a good thing to have, since it's personal. Where I disagree is that posts shouldn't have to be all "Wow, what a good post for a first user, I hope you have a jolly rest of your day" kind of thing. Just state things as they are, don't add emotion to it.

fundieInAChainWax · 2018-04-27T11:47:25+00:00

Artificial Intelligence research field and companies spawning off it are already dominated by male mandarin speakers.

1v1crown · 2018-04-27T14:56:52+00:00

Comments disabled. Censorship. Fucking cunts.

zandorz · 2018-04-27T16:43:40+00:00

I knew it was comming. I knew feminism would try to destroy STEM. Feminism is ruining everything the west have ever built, just to see it falling to ashes

bfte · 2018-04-27T13:10:29+00:00

Stackoverflow is jizz. You find a good answer once in a while, but most of the time if you use documentation you'll figure it out. Now when feelz>realz there's even less reason to use that shit.

2018-04-27T13:36:46+00:00

If anything SO is already too welcoming.

SuperPCUserName · 2018-04-27T15:08:13+00:00

I have used Stack Overflow for years and not once have I see any mention of gender or race. What the fuck is this bullshit?

Docbear64 · 2018-04-27T15:54:14+00:00

.....Who has ever considered stack overflow intimidating who actually does work ? 95% of programmers are looking up an error or asking a question , take a few peaks at the responses until they work through their issue and move on with their life and onto the next task in their project. if you try to use Stack overflow as any form of social platform ten you're doing it wrong ......

-- Sincerely a person of color who has considered stack overflow a critical resource on several projects I've worked on.

FritzLn · 2018-04-27T16:47:37+00:00

Lol at women being marginalized. They simultaneously put Trump in office and complained he was a misogynist. Mgtow is the only play. This stuff is seeping into everything. It will soon be illegal to not act like beta Bob in public settings

FritzLn · 2018-04-27T16:54:09+00:00

They always try to lump women and minorites in the same boat. I'm not saying minorites are treated horribly, I'm saying having a vagina makes your life infinitely more privileged.

Setari · 2018-04-27T17:17:17+00:00

When I ask a question on stack overflow with all the information I can give and people still say "get the fuck out of here we're not answering your question", I stop coding because that's the only help resource I have to fix my coding issues.

There's like some unwritten thing about how a post is supposed to be laid out and I can't find it to save my life. Not only that but when I am coding I turn out to have several questions that I can't ask all at once.

StackOverflow is a bunch of circlejerkers that is worse than reddit, and they have no decency towards new coders.

nikalumoglich · 2018-04-27T18:50:36+00:00

As a black programmer, I never felt any kind of hostility on SO or any other technical environment. My skin color don't avoid me of locking myself in my room and fuckin study.

People on SO are generally very helpful, the major exception is when some lazy cunt expect someone else to do his/her work. It must be a shock to women that spent their entire lives relying on simp nerds to save their fat arses.

PMmeYOURrareCONTENT · 2018-04-27T19:45:45+00:00

Okay that's nice. Can I please wake up now? This dream is starting to piss me off.

halfmad21 · 2018-04-27T13:47:14+00:00

Please no

BadSeed2666 · 2018-04-27T16:17:49+00:00

I don't know why anybody is surprised that the tech field is cucked with this sort of human garbage. It's another subculture all on it's own. Sure, there are some good apples in the tree but for the most part it's full of people who are pro-femenist.

Jimbo_Throw · 2018-04-27T15:26:49+00:00

I really hope this is just some bullshit that will pass over. Stack Overflow is great because it's central and covers all programming languages and topics. I don't want to go back to the days of scouring language and platform based forums for the answers to my questions.

Rambo1stBlood · 2018-04-27T15:49:52+00:00

The only remotely empathetic feeling I have towards women and people of color in environments like that is that it must suck being the one in thousands of people in those demographics that is actually interested in coding.

Like, we might hear a lot on the news about how we need to "encourage youngsters of all sexes and races to like coding, stem and other computer based trades"...but in reality they just don't care and aren't interested.

in that regard, hey, I feel ya! It must suck being like, the only person out of thousands of others like you interested in something. There is no way to create the environment they are talking about in this post over there though, and I highly doubt they deal with the kind of blatant racism and sexism they talk about in that press release.

andreas-mgtow · 2018-04-27T16:45:41+00:00

I bet it will be a super fun, super useful place, rich in technical content when all those insensitive neckbeards are finally ousted and all questions are answered by "feelings".

Next step: Fix compilers to be more inclusive, "there is no technically correct syntax. When someone writes code that they feel works, accept it, cuz that's the answer!"

robowriter · 2018-04-27T13:08:33+00:00

All the good millennials are already here.

fredditfgooglefthewo · 2018-04-27T16:46:39+00:00

The quality of SO answers has fallen dramatically. Most new solutions I read I'm like, this is shit or subtly wrong. I never comment back on them because I don't give centralized authorities my value when I can avoid it.

We need a decentralized Q/A service for anyone to ask anything on a blockchain. Question answerers should be paid in that coin.

realChebz · 2018-04-27T19:19:17+00:00

Wait there's no race or gender on SO, but the author assumes that snarky responses affect women and PoC the most. So logical conclusion is that he thinks they are more fragile. Who's being racist and sexist here?

a17c81a3 · 2018-04-27T19:26:40+00:00

Well I guess at least this means the AI apocalypse is cancelled. (.. or is this how things go wrong? dum dum duuum)

skoobled · 2018-04-27T21:22:35+00:00

Lots of comments about seeking help on there, but has anyone tried to provide answers? Awful for a different reason, generally that too many people view it as coder problem free fixing. What I mean is, the expectation that you will post in full and tested solutions to their problems rather than guiding them to understand their problem and overcome any underlying misunderstanding. Ie providing solutions that helps the poster to solve more than just they immediate problem. Basically entitlement to your shallow help

starkfuture · 2018-04-27T22:02:21+00:00

In my early days as a coder I used to post stupid questions and people didn't mind saying that these were stupid questions. More brutal truths in the Linux community forums.

And you know what, that made me try and improve my skills and now recently my manager called me a "veteran Java developer" - 4 years into the tech. I'd rather butt fuck myself with a cactus than answer one of these questions. And mentoring these bitches, no thank you.

thereddespair · 2018-04-27T23:19:23+00:00

I like stack overflow as it is. please dont ruin it

rocketman1899 · 2018-04-28T01:09:20+00:00

Fuck SO. Never had a question answered just people finding reasons it’s not worth a response

curious_fatbastard · 2018-04-28T03:57:29+00:00

Unpopular opinion - one part of the their statement is true. SO is absolute garbage for new comers to their site - arcane side bar rules nobody knows of can get you downvoted and you can effectively ask no questions after that.

But, being a good employer for women? Come on. Stop pandering to this already. Literally, every employer I know is pandering to this. I have many friends who are much more qualified losing out to diversity. I'm not sure antagonising all these men will lead to some good.

ShitArchonXPR · 2018-04-28T04:06:32+00:00

But how do we really know that too many developers experience Stack Overflow as an unwelcoming or hostile place? Well, the nice thing about problems that relate to how people feel is that finding the truth is easy. Feelings have no “technically correct.” They’re just what the feeler is telling you. When someone tells you how they feel, you can pack up your magnifying glass and clue kit, cuz that’s the answer. You’re done. And a lot of devs feel like Stack Overflow is an intimidating, unwelcoming place.

This sounds a lot like the speech of a stupid Miss America contestant.

rahl_r · 2018-04-27T16:37:27+00:00

Jay Hanlon (the author).

This guy fucks!

BoughtenCockloft · 2018-04-28T04:39:15+00:00

Stackoverflow’s success comes from it’s almost perfectly balanced system producing excellent content and therefore traffic from search engines. The minute they fuck with it, it starts going downhill and a better alternative will replace it.

Sirsitsat · 2018-04-27T20:17:13+00:00

I feel like society is burning and as it lies slowly dying it whispers “stay gold, mgtow boy, stay gold”

Dregenfox · 2018-04-27T17:00:35+00:00

Eh...I find stack overflow occasionally useful, but imo it's true that most of the people trying to answer questions there don't offer anything particularly helpful. Half of the time it's just cut-and-pasted answers from other sites or a guy who wants to show off how hardcore of a programmer he is. I personally no longer use it as my first resource.

Most programmers...don't make good teachers. That's part of the reason they're good programmers.

It's far better to go for blog posts from real programmers (These are the ones actually interested in sharing their knowledge in an accessible way) and reading the actual reference documents from MDN or frameworks, which are often written without prior assumptions and biases and edited for clarity.

thesearelies · 2018-04-27T18:36:04+00:00

What's Stack Overflow?

2018-04-28T00:19:34+00:00

I've asked a few CS related questions in recent memory. The responses are generally condescending, rude, and uninformative. My account actually vanished from one day to the next. I haven't been back.

Flame2057 · 2018-04-28T00:42:24+00:00

Stackoverflow has and always will be a hostile environment to everyone

2018-04-28T04:08:53+00:00

Let’s shift from “don’t be an asshole” to “be welcoming.”

Next they'll change well established terms like "kill", "terminate", "male/female sockets", "quadratic equation discriminant"

Title	Feminist soyboys now destroying Stack Overflow
Author	xenoSpiegel
Upvotes	132
Comments	106
Date	April 27, 2018 10:46 AM UTC (8 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MGTOW
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MGTOW/comments/8fap7u/feminist_soyboys_now_destroying_stack_overflow/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MGTOW/feminist-soyboys-now-destroying-stack-overflow.564246 https://theredarchive.com/post/564246