So what are the downsides of MGTOW?

2015-03-21T06:26:49+00:00

MGTOW is a natural path for me. Even when I was a naive idealist about relationships and marriage, I never wanted to have children and was iffy about marriage due to how much people change over a lifetime in modern society. I'm very strongly introverted and require a LOT of personal space, which contraindicates marriage and parenthood.

Instead of romantic relationships being the cornerstone of my social life, it has been based on male friendships. The downside to this is loss of friends, indirectly through attrition, to relationships, marriage, and parenthood. It isn't so much that they stop being my friend, they simply have little time for leisure once they get tied down.

It's lonely, but not because of the lack of romantic relationship. It's lonely at times because it is not the social norm, and thus finding other friends that share the same ideology is difficult.

marduk_hs · 2015-03-21T04:04:37+00:00

The biggest downside to me is not leaving a biological legacy (aka kids). It's the last harsh reality of MGTOW that I have not yet fully accepted and that still makes me doubt this way of living from time to time. Surrogacy is not an option, at least not in my country where it is still illegal and not socially accepted (don't care about myself but it's a living hell for kids). I can’t see that changing in the foreseeable future and all attempts will probably be met by massive oppositions from female voters and conservatives. There’s no way to work around it without facing the very same risks we would by impregnating women.

As you said, loneliness is a pretty big deal. It’s worth noting that this loneliness is not limited to relationships but it also encompasses many other social interactions. To the eyes of most people, single men are highly suspicious and you will be treated with mistrust by your coworkers, family and friends. I found this to be way harder than being single sensu stricto.

Also, I’d say doxxing is a consequence we have to consider since we’re posting on the Internet. I know MGTOW is not yet big enough to attract enough attention for it to be something low-profile MGTOWs like us should worry about, but it could be five years from now. Depending on how things evolve, the guys involved won’t only be Stardusk and Barbarossa, but more humble guys like us. It might sound paranoid, but this has happened in other fields and we should keep that in mind when posting on the web.

If your post is also about the downsides for society, I’m afraid I can’t give a grounded opinion. It would be too much of a change to say anything about its effects on a large scale. Honestly, I don’t really care. MGTOW has only been good to me so far and if the very same society that tried to make my life miserable should crumble under its weight, then so be it. I won’t shed a tear.

2015-03-21T02:49:19+00:00

Wouldn't you rather be a bit lonely than to sleep next to someone who wants nothing more than to feed off your soul, everyday, for the rest of your life?

thrownaway_MGTOW · 2015-03-22T02:54:13+00:00

I found that as my parents aged, I was expected to do progressively more for them while my brother does absolutely nothing. The number one reason given is "Well, you're retired and don't have a family."

This for me has been the biggest downside.

For Christmas I bought myself a cottage and find myself (curiously - heehee) spending more time there than at home. It's worked out quite well for me now as I just say - "No can do, I have to be up at the cottage,"

NotAlwaysAppropriate · 2015-03-21T02:35:56+00:00

It's bad for society, although depending on how fed up you are, that could go in the 'positives' column.

kurtu5 · 2015-03-21T19:48:19+00:00

I have dreams where I meet a woman who actually cares for me deeply and is going to be a 100% partner in sharing my life.

Then I wake and remember that no woman would sacrifice all her own autonomy for someone else, the illusion falls apart. Much like my dreams that hitting the snooze button on the alarm clock somehow can magically rewind time.

oldredder · 2015-03-21T17:39:27+00:00

There are no downsides.

You can only have what you want in your life as a man by going your own way. Everyone else's way is your exploitation for their benefit.

Men don't need to feel lonely: you can actually turn that emotion off (I have) and when you do life is grand.

thrownaway_MGTOW · 2015-03-22T06:26:55+00:00

The chief downside of choosing MGTOW -- is that you will probably NOT have kids.

That -- like many things -- is both a blessing and a curse.

But kids themselves are that: they are both a blessing AND a curse (and to varying degrees depending on the kid). And having a child who you DON'T really "connect" with -- especially once they reach adulthood -- can probably be even more depressing (and loneliness inducing) than not having a child. (Cf "Cat's in the Cradle")

EDIT: There IS an additional (at least potential) "downside" hidden in there -- and that is while there is a commitment/slave aspect, well that can and does often serve as a "motivating" thing: there are people counting and even DEPENDENT upon you, and so you will probably work harder and MAY (though not necessarily) end up achieving more. (But again, that's a YMMV kind of thing, I've seen it work both ways: family/kids CAN motive you to bigger things, or they can drag you down and PREVENT you from things, especially "risky" things that might have a higher payoff.)

As to the "loneliness" thing, I think that is largely mistaken/misleading.

Because "loneliness" is an aspect of "not connecting" with other people -- it isn't simply "living alone" -- many people who are single/live alone (especially in our modern "connected" age) have very active social lives; often far more active than people who have "paired off" -- by contrast I know lots of married people (including with kids) who are in many ways far more "lonely" despite the fact that they are surrounded by a proverbial "crowd" of people.

I think of the line from the film "Before Sunset" (the 2nd film in the trilogy and sequel to the "Before Sunrise" film), where the Ethan Hawke character is describing his married (w kids) life:

I feel like I'm running a small nursery with someone I used to date.

In other words, and as is more or less made plain by the context and other statements; he is incredibly lonely, he and his wife really don't have anything in common -- other than their children -- they do not intellectually connect, they do not really have shared interests or hobbies, they are both lonely as adults with little to no social activity, and more or less "locked up" within a household of children.

That kind of "companionship" can and does certainly keep people BUSY (sometimes 24x7x365... x20+ years) -- and by being so "occupied" -- well, it hides or suppresses the feelings of loneliness (how can you be lonely if you're exhausted?), but that kind of busyness doesn't necessarily eliminate the "lack of connection" to others, and in many cases it exacerbates it (because with the spouse/kids, other relationships are typically lost, abandoned, neglected -- especially for modern married men, few of them really have anyone they can call a "close friend," that label typically being applied either to coworkers, or former classmates, often people that they haven't even spoken to in months or years, but whom they really no longer do anything with that would resemble an "active" social relationship).

The end consequence is what is often called the "empty nest" syndrome -- where after the kids are grown and out of the home -- the husband and wife look at each other and realize they are essentially "strangers" who have little or nothing in common.

That isn't ALL marriages, but it is a significant number/percentage of them (yes even the ones that "survive" that long).

PM_ME_UR_PLANTS · 2015-03-21T20:58:14+00:00

MGTOW is action in rational self-interest. So, you get to miss out on irrational self-interest and self-sacrifice.

MuscleCarz · 2015-03-22T09:44:48+00:00

Downside?

First one that comes to mind right off is...trying to figure out what to do with the money I'm accumulating that otherwise would have been siphoned-off in a long-term relationship or marriage.

Two years ago, a few months AFTER I broke it off with my ex-girlfriend, I noticed I was a couple grand over my "normal" saving rate (we dated for 7 years) in my savings account and had a WTF? revelation.

That's when I realized EVERYTHING we did together was on my dime...breakfasts, lunches, dinners, trips, movies and on and on. For what?...paying for the privilege of waiting like a table-dog for her to ration-out the pootie?

When I think of how f**ked I could have been had I married her makes me shudder and feel relief at the same time.

bellbone · 2015-04-24T04:03:24+00:00

I guess the initial few months are hard to bear. You get attracted to the philosophy and decide to live on it, life becomes different. What you stand up against is a life time of conscious and subconscious behaviour. Gynocentric behaviour kicks in even when we are acting on fight-or-flight mode(the women and children first concept). Then you start discovering that society around you is also gynocentric and any attempts to live otherwise would be met with subtle and unsubtle ways of punishment. One guy 23 yrs old was beaten to death by a mob in Delhi for pissing on the street side( proper toilets are few and mainly for women). This guy got this treatment after a girl complained to her dad. I know this(guys) doesn't count as MGTOW behaviour but all he did was to tell the woman to mind her own business and not tell him where to piss and where not to. He wasn't doing her any harm and was literally doing something thousands of men(and women) do. Yet he got beaten to death. So every MGTOW does live in constant fear of death because a single female testimony is enough to damn him. But as time passes on you start taking things in your stride, being the advantage of a man is that you get to re-caliberate your system whenever you want.

nigelh · 2015-03-21T09:46:08+00:00

The only thing you don't do is breeding. Cultivate your friends.

2015-03-24T00:01:33+00:00

In the future when you're an old man (given you never had children) there's going to be no one there to take care of you unless you have a big family who's really close.

I felt really lonely for a while, but it felt a lot better than sleeping next to my ex.

General_Fear · 2015-03-21T12:35:55+00:00

The only bad part that I see from MGTOW is old age. If you lose your mental abilities in your old age like alzheimers disease. A guy who is married and has kids can be taken care of by their family.

Title	So what are the downsides of MGTOW?
Author	CoconutRough
Upvotes	9
Comments	40
Date	March 21, 2015 2:25 AM UTC (11 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MGTOW
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MGTOW/comments/2zrp2n/so_what_are_the_downsides_of_mgtow/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MGTOW/so-what-are-the-downsides-of-mgtow.628956 https://theredarchive.com/post/628956

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