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Does TRP kill love?

Reddit View
June 24, 2020
5 upvotes

Pretty much title. I don’t think I’ll ever “love” again or at least the way I thought love was supposed to be like.

Next time I get a girl, I’d pretty much just desire her sexually and to create some babies and start a family. I don’t think I’d love her emotionally if that makes sense. I’d treat her right and respect her and be kind but definitely won’t be bringing flowers every month.

Is this a bad way to think? Is my perception of love incorrect?


Post Information
Title Does TRP kill love?
Author agoodcrayon
Upvotes 5
Comments 23
Date 24 June 2020 06:30 PM UTC (8 months ago)
Subreddit askRPC
Link https://theredarchive.com/post/700001
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/askRPC/comments/hf6gm6/does_trp_kill_love/
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Comments

[–]afterthe_fapocalypse7 points8 points  (14 children) | Copy

Love is a choice. It doesn't have to be an emotion, but it's often helpful if supported by affectionate feelings. When you love someone, you will their good - through words, actions, and in your heart ultimately. This is how we can love even an enemy. We don't have to feel lovey dovey about them, and I'm sure we often don't.

Ultimately TRP is a perspective on human behavior, particularly intersexual dynamics. It provides a framework of analysis, but doesn't need to be THE analysis. God says what God says and His word is final. Think of TRP as a tool in your kit to use here and there but not the end all and be all.

When you're thinking about loving a woman, we don't really love them in the sense that some other commentators here state, like she's some video game goddess or pedestalized fantasy. Women don't want that either. Love requires a grasp of who the person really is. Otherwise it can be adulation or infatuation or whatever, and that isn't love. When you love someone, you see them ... and that love is tested when you are aware of that person's flaws and yet still love him/her.

I've found it's a lot easier to retain my sense of rootedness in self and frame when I love a woman outside of a romantic setting. It really makes one aware of the difference between love and fleshly attraction. I'm not saying being attracted at a sexual level to a woman is twisted and evil, but taht is not love.

So saying that you're going to just desire her sexually is really objectifying her and focusing on your needs. If you're going to go that way, then yeah, you've killed love. You've killed your heart off.

Look, some women do really bad things. Some choose evil. Sounds like you've been hurt which brought you to this edge of a decision. You don't post a lot haha so I'm giving you the benefit of a doubt you're not a psychopath. But what I'm saying is that when you love with God's kind of love and recognize how you are forgiven and loved, how can you not love others? Mourning their self-destruction is a kind of love.

Ultimately, God's kind of love as He is teaching me puts the other person first before oneself. If you don't want to love them, that's that, but if you do, you put them first. And loving someone else that way comes through association with the Holy Spirit, through studying and understanding human behavior instead of ridiculing it, through seeing someone not through our own needs/wants but through theirs and through God's eyes. Honestly, if I can put it the most basic way, the more you pray the more you turn godly. There's more than one adage that you can tell a man by the company he keeps, and the more we pray, the more God is that company. When we follow God instead of even ourselves, He changes us. He makes us the way we can be. There is peace in this.

[–]Torn4_0251 point2 points  (13 children) | Copy

So saying that you're going to just desire her sexually is really objectifying her and focusing on your needs. If you're going to go that way, then yeah, you've killed love. You've killed your heart off.

Not the OP but this reasoning I see Christians pose has me wondering. What happens if you are just burning with lust and just desire to not sin against God with your lusting?

Can you just love your wife though choices like helping around the house or in an extreme case laying down your life to protect her. Or does this need to involve some romance stuff. Because truthfully it's unlikely I could get very emotionally attached to whoever I married as I won't trust them like I do family.

[–]afterthe_fapocalypse2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

This is a very natural and virtuous question. There is a difference between romantic attraction (eros) and love, but the two are often mingled together. In the marital relationship, I would argue that it certainly helps to have both there, and in a healthy relationship one will reinforce and support the other. But the question you pose is a different one. It involves both concepts of duty and of natural bonding - which if not present is unnatural and an indication that something is wrong.

Let me explain it in a way where you can see yourself as the subject here instead of the woman. Suppose you were married, and your wife perceived your flaws. And let's presume those flaws are severe enough to be alienating to a reasonable person. (we all have flaws, no judgment if you feel a personal guilt here, and I'm not trying to judge). Well let's say that immediately upon recognizing your flaws, she lost respect for you.

Now she will put out for you and prepare lunch for the kids. But she doesn't want to spend time with you or get closer to you. In fact she feels a kind of revulsion toward you. Wouldn't feel so great would it? I mean you're in a position where you might actually like that, but this brings up the idea of natural bonding I alluded to earlier. It's abnormal for you not to want to get closer to a person you are living with. Now, to be up front, I'm not talking about merging or the illusion that you can become infinitely close with someone. But relationships that are healthy generally result in two people growing closer over time, through fighting and negotiation, through conflict and its resolution, and through love and acts of selflessness (and I mean selflessness because you know the other person doesn't deserve your generosity at times, and maybe all the time although that would be a pretty lousy partner).

TRP in Christianity, from what I've heard from a really healthy guy who left a year or two ago, diagnoses what a woman's problem is at her core. It talks of a woman's fallen and natural state. Now TRP in the world has no hope for the resuscitation of a woman to who God made, because they don't believe in God or regeneration of the spirit/heart at baptism - the 'born again' beginnings of Christian life. But in Christianity TRP shows us what a woman's natural weaknesses are and what she is fighting against. Just as relentless self-examination, prayer, and telling the truth results in our realizing our own flaws and just how messed up we are as people.

If we are to accuse women of being flawed because they are a woman, in the sense that the flaw is in their femininity (instead of the flaw being in themselves and that it only affects the expression of their femininity), then we as Christian men can guess that because Nature in many ways is symmetrical and promotes symmetry, we as men would have flaws because we are men. But if it is true in that the flaw is in the woman because she is a person in a fallen world, just as we are, then we see that the flaw isn't in the woman because she is a woman. And we look at that with compassion, realizing that our Father in heaven sees us with our flaws, too.

This doesn't mean that we revert back to pedestalizing her or being a beta. But it means that if we choose to love her, then we love her in knowledge of the truth about her. And when you really get to know a person, you see this and you'll see it in anyone. The closer you get to those beautiful sculptures in the ancient world you will see the cracks and corrosions in them, the fissures and imperfections that from afar hid themselves from your critical sight.

Once you see a person you have the choice either to love them or not to. And you might not feel very good about it, particularly if what you see in them is a raging storm of toxic evil instead of a few bad things. Like, if the person for instance refuses to admit they have flaws or is totally unaware that they do, or if they aggressively project their flaws onto you, they are dysfunctional and you can't have a relationship with them. Once you saw the truth about them, you can want their best and from a very far distance, because if you tangle with them they're gonna get drag you down. But a person who is normally flawed, you can get close to. Now they still have flaws, but you do too. And part of your relationship once you get past the infatuation "you're perfect, babe, I can't believe how much you saved my life", and you see that she looks like crap in the morning or drinks a little too much or she farts in her sleep, or she can be sexually frigid when she's insecure ... etc., once you start seeing these things then you have choices.

And that brings me to your point about doing chores around the house. You don't need romance there to love her. Pretend we're talking about your wife. You don't need that. But if she's a vulnerable and good person, how can you not have compassion on her? If she's trying to do better, then how can you not have mercy on her for being where she is? Now if she isn't like that at all and is a conceited skank, then what are you doing with her at all? That's lust then. Because you're only using a component of the person instead of the real thing.

And TRP will tell you that you are justified in doing this, because they don't know what it's like to see a woman really change in the presence of God. And I wonder just how many women are really changed and who are in prayer. Especially the younger ones. But in Christianity, a woman has a chance to be different and better, to go back to being a helpmeet.

Burning with lust isn't undesirable, by the way, because it's a sin against God but because it's annoying, bro. You get blinded and miss out on other great opportunities, not to mention that you're always in a state of aggravation internally and never at peace. Desiring a woman sexually is not a bad thing. It's normal and healthy. But it's when that dominates your thinking that it becomes lust. Interestingly in the OT the Hebrew word for 'greed' and 'covet' is interchangeable with 'lust'.

[–]Torn4_0250 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

This is a very natural and virtuous question. There is a difference between romantic attraction (eros) and love, but the two are often mingled together. In the marital relationship, I would argue that it certainly helps to have both there, and in a healthy relationship one will reinforce and support the other. But the question you pose is a different one. It involves both concepts of duty and of natural bonding - which if not present is unnatural and an indication that something is wrong.

I didn't expect such a detailed reply to my comment. So first I thank you for the effort.

Let me explain it in a way where you can see yourself as the subject here instead of the woman. Suppose you were married, and your wife perceived your flaws. And let's presume those flaws are severe enough to be alienating to a reasonable person. (we all have flaws, no judgment if you feel a personal guilt here, and I'm not trying to judge). Well let's say that immediately upon recognizing your flaws, she lost respect for you.

Now she will put out for you and prepare lunch for the kids. But she doesn't want to spend time with you or get closer to you. In fact she feels a kind of revulsion toward you. Wouldn't feel so great would it? I mean you're in a position where you might actually like that, but this brings up the idea of natural bonding I alluded to earlier. It's abnormal for you not to want to get closer to a person you are living with. Now, to be up front, I'm not talking about merging or the illusion that you can become infinitely close with someone. But relationships that are healthy generally result in two people growing closer over time, through fighting and negotiation, through conflict and its resolution, and through love and acts of selflessness (and I mean selflessness because you know the other person doesn't deserve your generosity at times, and maybe all the time although that would be a pretty lousy partner).

I'm an abnormal person to begin with. So if I could just have a roommate like wife that had wild sex with me I would be totally into that. It's not like I want the other person to feel revulsion, but I have a low tolerance for emotionally clingy girls. I also personally don't want biological children.

TRP in Christianity, from what I've heard from a really healthy guy who left a year or two ago, diagnoses what a woman's problem is at her core. It talks of a woman's fallen and natural state. Now TRP in the world has no hope for the resuscitation of a woman to who God made, because they don't believe in God or regeneration of the spirit/heart at baptism - the 'born again' beginnings of Christian life. But in Christianity TRP shows us what a woman's natural weaknesses are and what she is fighting against. Just as relentless self-examination, prayer, and telling the truth results in our realizing our own flaws and just how messed up we are as people.

I fully agree with this part.

If we are to accuse women of being flawed because they are a woman, in the sense that the flaw is in their femininity (instead of the flaw being in themselves and that it only affects the expression of their femininity), then we as Christian men can guess that because Nature in many ways is symmetrical and promotes symmetry, we as men would have flaws because we are men. But if it is true in that the flaw is in the woman because she is a person in a fallen world, just as we are, then we see that the flaw isn't in the woman because she is a woman. And we look at that with compassion, realizing that our Father in heaven sees us with our flaws, too.

I would agree with this part, but fact is women far more often don't care about the way they act in dating or marriage.

This doesn't mean that we revert back to pedestalizing her or being a beta. But it means that if we choose to love her, then we love her in knowledge of the truth about her. And when you really get to know a person, you see this and you'll see it in anyone. The closer you get to those beautiful sculptures in the ancient world you will see the cracks and corrosions in them, the fissures and imperfections that from afar hid themselves from your critical sight.

It's a lot more effort to see the cracks and imperfections of women than men. I would say it's 10 times as long or more before their mask slips. Some women can keep it up forever. They are like beautiful sculptures that consistently have teams of professionals restoring them so you can't see the cracks and corrosion without specialized equipment. I really see it as one massive pain in the neck.

Once you see a person you have the choice either to love them or not to. And you might not feel very good about it, particularly if what you see in them is a raging storm of toxic evil instead of a few bad things. Like, if the person for instance refuses to admit they have flaws or is totally unaware that they do, or if they aggressively project their flaws onto you, they are dysfunctional and you can't have a relationship with them. Once you saw the truth about them, you can want their best and from a very far distance, because if you tangle with them they're gonna get drag you down. But a person who is normally flawed, you can get close to. Now they still have flaws, but you do too. And part of your relationship once you get past the infatuation "you're perfect, babe, I can't believe how much you saved my life", and you see that she looks like crap in the morning or drinks a little too much or she farts in her sleep, or she can be sexually frigid when she's insecure ... etc., once you start seeing these things then you have choices.

I guess this brings me back to the point I made before with dating and marriage. Women often treat their husbands like dogs and it's socially accepted. I view many women as being dysfunctional because of the way many of them treat their husbands like worthless bugs while husbands repeatedly speak of how lucky they are. It's utterly revolting to me.

And that brings me to your point about doing chores around the house. You don't need romance there to love her. Pretend we're talking about your wife. You don't need that. But if she's a vulnerable and good person, how can you not have compassion on her? If she's trying to do better, then how can you not have mercy on her for being where she is? Now if she isn't like that at all and is a conceited skank, then what are you doing with her at all? That's lust then. Because you're only using a component of the person instead of the real thing.

If I actually believed it then sure I would have compassion. Even if I didn't then I'd still have compassion because of God's commandments. None of that means I'm going to trust them. The bible says it's better to marry than burn with lust so it might entail just using a component of that person so you don't sin. Praying the straight away would be the better option for me, but if that doesn't work then I really don't have other non sinful choices.

Burning with lust isn't undesirable, by the way, because it's a sin against God but because it's annoying, bro. You get blinded and miss out on other great opportunities, not to mention that you're always in a state of aggravation internally and never at peace. Desiring a woman sexually is not a bad thing. It's normal and healthy. But it's when that dominates your thinking that it becomes lust. Interestingly in the OT the Hebrew word for 'greed' and 'covet' is interchangeable with 'lust'.

I have to disagree because not sinning is more important than however annoying it might be. If I live in sin and then die before repenting of it then I'm going to hell for sure.

[–]Deep_Strength1 point2 points  (10 children) | Copy

Can you just love your wife though choices like helping around the house or in an extreme case laying down your life to protect her. Or does this need to involve some romance stuff. Because truthfully it's unlikely I could get very emotionally attached to whoever I married as I won't trust them like I do family.

Huh?

Your wife IS your family now. In fact, the Genesis 2 verses that Jesus quotes in the gospels about "a man leaving his father and mother and cleaving to his wife and becoming one flesh" means that your wife is your family and that your former family is less important.

[–]Torn4_0250 points1 point  (9 children) | Copy

I realize that's what the bible says, but pragmatically I don't see viewing my wife as more important. Legalistically I would do what God says on the matter, but heart wise I don't see it connecting that way to be straight with you.

It's kind of like quoting the verse to not deny sex to women. They might submit to starfish, but heart wise don't feel attracted. After my own personal experiences and RP I don't foresee getting emotionally attached or trusting any woman I married. If I said otherwise I'd be a parrot repeating hollow words.

[–]Deep_Strength1 point2 points  (6 children) | Copy

I realize that's what the bible says, but pragmatically I don't see viewing my wife as more important.

It doesn't say to treat her as more important. It says to "love her for the purpose of sanctification" and "love her like your own body" in Ephesians 5.

It's kind of like quoting the verse to not deny sex to women. They might submit to starfish, but heart wise don't feel attracted.

That's why we say to marry a woman that is a true Christian, teachable, and attracted to you. Yeah, that can still happen, but you mitigate the chances significantly.

After my own personal experiences and RP I don't foresee getting emotionally attached or trusting any woman I married. If I said otherwise I'd be a parrot repeating hollow words.

Pray that God takes your heart of stone and gives you a heart of flesh!

[–]Torn4_0250 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy

It doesn't say to treat her as more important. It says to "love her for the purpose of sanctification" and "love her like your own body" in Ephesians 5.

I can love for the purpose of sanctification and my own self, but not trust or love more than some other people.

That's why we say to marry a woman that is a true Christian, teachable, and attracted to you. Yeah, that can still happen, but you mitigate the chances significantly.

I couldn't tell you what a true Christian woman actually is. I once believed the answer wasn't hard, but now I don't trust myself to know. Teachable works until it doesn't and feels cause them to support ungodly act's. The girl wearing head coverings to church then does head on Friday night. The girl leading a small group and volunteering to feed homeless then sleeps with other girls and declares they are a bi-sexual. The answer given to me is they were never true Christian's and then I just say it's simply impossible to tell if someone is ever a true Christian or not.

The attraction one is tricky because if you can't have sex before marriage you won't know for sure if she wants it. Sure there are signs like if they keep on touching you or kiss you out the blue, but you can't know the future.

[–]Deep_Strength1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy

I can love for the purpose of sanctification and my own self, but not trust or love more than some other people.

Huh? So you have trust issues? Then work on those.

I couldn't tell you what a true Christian woman actually is. I once believed the answer wasn't hard, but now I don't trust myself to know. Teachable works until it doesn't and feels cause them to support ungodly act's. The girl wearing head coverings to church then does head on Friday night. The girl leading a small group and volunteering to feed homeless then sleeps with other girls and declares they are a bi-sexual. The answer given to me is they were never true Christian's and then I just say it's simply impossible to tell if someone is ever a true Christian or not.

I don't get it.

All you have to do is follow what the Bible says in Matthew 18: Admonish them and tell them to turn away from sin. If they don't, they're probably not any person that cares about following Jesus at least.

They're likely serving in Church because it makes them feel good rather than because they are changed by the gospel and transformed to want to do good.

Lots of people are in the modern Church because they think that going to Church makes them saved or they're there for the social aspect or other things like that. The true Christians are the ones who have the indicators we talked about in this recent post:

https://www.reddit.com/r/askRPC/comments/hgea4g/churchians_vs_christians/

[–]Torn4_0250 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

Huh? So you have trust issues? Then work on those.

Trust issues suggest my position is unjustified. From my point of view it's extremely justified. If by work on it you mean professional mental services I have spent a lot of time and wasted it there.

I don't get it.

All you have to do is follow what the Bible says in Matthew 18: Admonish them and tell them to turn away from sin. If they don't, they're probably not any person that cares about following Jesus at least.

They're likely serving in Church because it makes them feel good rather than because they are changed by the gospel and transformed to want to do good.

Lots of people are in the modern Church because they think that going to Church makes them saved or they're there for the social aspect or other things like that. The true Christians are the ones who have the indicators we talked about in this recent post:

https://www.reddit.com/r/askRPC/comments/hgea4g/churchians_vs_christians/

Actually I am the one that doesn't get it. I've seen people that act just like indicated True Christians in that post and then boom they are joining a rainbow march or become the town bicycle.

Honestly the easier explanation is they lost salvation, but in any case it still means you can't really know.

[–]Deep_Strength1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

Trust issues suggest my position is unjustified. From my point of view it's extremely justified. If by work on it you mean professional mental services I have spent a lot of time and wasted it there.

Yes, given the overall thrust of the Scripture. But if you can stay single for God and serve Him then great.

Actually I am the one that doesn't get it. I've seen people that act just like indicated True Christians in that post and then boom they are joining a rainbow march or become the town bicycle.

Most Christians who turn from their faith don't do it willy nilly. They have doubts in their hearts that they struggle with for years (which they conveniently don't tell anyone who can help them), and then they let it build up until they just go off course. Parable of the sower: rocky soil and among thorn

When I was growing up I looked the part of a true Christian by going to various youth groups, serving, doing my best to obey God, etc but I didn't have the Christ truly first in my heart. I fell away and eventually came back to God.

There was a night and day difference, and you would be able to tell if you just sat down with the me then and the me now and asked questions , even though a lot of what we did looks the same.

[–]Torn4_0250 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Yes, given the overall thrust of the Scripture. But if you can stay single for God and serve Him then great.

Remaining single is best then.

Most Christians who turn from their faith don't do it willy nilly. They have doubts in their hearts that they struggle with for years (which they conveniently don't tell anyone who can help them), and then they let it build up until they just go off course. Parable of the sower: rocky soil and among thorn

Or they do speak about it. Get shamed as not a true Scotsman and then become atheist going around de-converting people. It's just one more reason I hate going to Church.

When I was growing up I looked the part of a true Christian by going to various youth groups, serving, doing my best to obey God, etc but I didn't have the Christ truly first in my heart. I fell away and eventually came back to God.

There was a night and day difference, and you would be able to tell if you just sat down with the me then and the me now and asked questions , even though a lot of what we did looks the same.

Many people know what the acceptable range of responses are. I'm sure in your case there was a difference, but with many you just can't tell. For the heart deceives all. Because he that masquerades as an angel of light easily deceives us.

[–]Willow-girl0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

It's probably best if you abstain from marriage, then, or at least make your views really clear to prospective partners so they can make an informed choice.

[–]Torn4_0250 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

It's probably best if you abstain from marriage, then, or at least make your views really clear to prospective partners so they can make an informed choice.

My step sister basically told me the same thing. It's not something I can really change or have control over so abstaining from marriage like I always wanted is best.

[–]Deep_Strength2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

I don’t think I’ll ever “love” again or at least the way I thought love was supposed to be like.

If your "love" was based in infatuation and ONEitis then hopefully not.

Next time I get a girl, I’d pretty much just desire her sexually and to create some babies and start a family. I don’t think I’d love her emotionally if that makes sense. I’d treat her right and respect her and be kind but definitely won’t be bringing flowers every month.

You're thinking about this wrongly.

You can live how you want to live. If you want to do tons of romantic things for the woman you potentially marry even knowing what you know now then go for it. If you don't then don't.

The issue isn't doing those things. It's who they're coming from and intent. Remember, flowers from an attractive man is romantic and from an unattractive man is a creep.

Marry someone who is appreciative of what you bring to the table for them.

[–]redwall921 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy

Define love; maybe your question will mean something.

If by "love", you define it as bringing flowers every month ... then sure. Kill that flower-loving-puppy with some RP and get a life.

If by "love", you define it as wrapping up your happiness in someone else's? ... then yeah ... kill that co-dependant puppy with some RP, too.

Define your terms, bro.

If you're still "healing" like you describe in your post a month ago ...

https://www.reddit.com/r/askRPC/comments/gkzzg0/how_to_heal_from_previous_relationship/

... then "loving" a woman in a relationship context should be waaaay off your radar. You can't love someone from a place of neediness.

[–]agoodcrayon[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

I just love God, my family, and myself. Those puppies were destroyed.

What is Love to you?

[–]redwall925 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy

Next time I get a girl, I’d pretty much just desire her sexually and to create some babies and start a family. I don’t think I’d love her emotionally if that makes sense.

Yeah ... when I look at my 40yo wife who's had my five babies I pretty much smirk at her and say "hey babe, it was good while it lasted (now that we're done having babies)."

Heck .. every time she comes up behind me to rub my back, or anytime she tells me her tits are feeling good (code for come touch them) ... I just look at her and think "geeze ... would ya stop trying to get all emotive on me?!"

I mean, why should we even smile at each other? TRP just killed it all, hey?

[–]agoodcrayon[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Lmao

[–]Willow-girl1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I think the danger of TRP is that if you are led to believe all women are childlike irrational creatures, that's the kind of woman you'll end up with. You won't set your sights on better because you'll believe they don't exist.

It's like a woman who thinks all men are cheaters, so she ends up with ... a cheater, because she didn't bother to vet for qualities like faithfulness.

Beware.

[–]Praexology0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

The issue you're struggling with (AWALT) needs to come with the concession that women still have autonomy. God created men and women both with free will, and as such a woman can still deny her sinful side (the ego driven and sexually immoral side of hypergamy) to be pure, and to show God glory.

The Lord would not create a being without the intention of Glorifying himself, and the devastating idea of women being totally depraved and victim to their sinful behavior without any chance of turning towards God through Christ would NOT be glorifying.

You just have to be careful to find and pick out a woman who values those things. (Having a big tits or a phat booty helps a LOT.) Plus some of them can even be funny!

[–]FrankTheCurious0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

What is Love to you?

If you read TRP you need to understand how men and women love differently, thats how we were made, for a reason.



You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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