RPW's thoughts on a particular version of feminism?

margerym · 2013-09-14T15:26:21+00:00

The other version of feminism that I have encountered (and the one that is the one put forth in this comic), is that true feminism means the power and freedom of choice to lead the kind of life you prefer as a woman. This choice may mean a life that looks like the independent/men-disdaining/femininity-rejecting archetype of a feminist that is disapproved of in the RP community, or it might look like the kind of life we, as RPW are pursuing.

Simply put, no. This sort of feminism actually does not exist. It is made up of people either on their way in or on their way out of the movement. It's like the feminist waiting room.

Feminists will say they support women in doing whatever they want because choice. It's not true. Their actions speak louder than their words and so do their other words.

Case in point women are constantly dismantled in society for not being feminist enough. Their choices are painted as dangerous and ignorant and it is expected that they align themselves more fully with the movement before they can claim true choice. This is where it gets tricky, where their sliminess with language comes in, "choice" is thrown around but when women make a choice outside of what is accepted by feminism it suddenly isn't a choice at all. The standard is to say the woman has been coerced, is being abused, has internalized misogyny, is a victim of the patriarchy and is thus exercising a false choice, etc. Sneaky, right? On the internet women who don't follow the feminist ideal are accused of not even being real women! Just go on over to the sub-Reddits snarking us and see how many posters assert we are men pretending to be women. Myself, included. These are the ways they dismiss women making choices.

Let's look at what just happened to Huma Abedin when she decided to stand by her husband, Anthony Wiener. This Oped speaks volumes. Note the condescending tone and assertion of false or forced choice. The attitude of "she must be saved from herself". (shameless self promotion- I am writing a blog post on this):

Isn’t it time to call the spectacle of the suffering political wife, standing by her man in the media glare as he admits to his latest sexual offense against her, what it really is: spousal abuse?

Huma Abedin has the right to make any decisions she wants about her life, just as a victim of domestic abuse has the right to return for more — but we don’t have to stand silently by and condone it.

...

We have the right to say that we will not enable this anymore; we will not endorse it; we will not bless it just because it is her “choice.” Instead, we will call a public figure’s cheating on his wife, then bringing her to the mea culpa press conference, not only offensive to her but a slap in the face to women in the electorate.

Because it's not about your individual choice, it's about furthering the agenda. Never forget that. See?...

Some of us are trying to raise our girls to be more than voiceless partners sucking up their pride as their husbands trample over their dignity.

In case you don't believe me about the cause > choice:

No woman should be authorized to stay at home to raise her children. Society should be totally different. Women should not have that choice, precisely because if there is such a choice, too many women will make that one. It is a way of forcing women in a certain direction.

-Simone de Beauvoir

Feminism is not about choice. Never was, never will be. It is about pushing women, all women, to the top. And everyone is suppose to be on board with this.

Being pro-women, social equality, anti-rape, etc are not exclusive to feminism. This whole "if you believe in equality, you're a feminist" is completely illogical. I love this comic about it.

When was the last time feminism equally fought for male domestic violence victims who make up half or more of DV victims? When was the last time even bringing that up wasn't slammed as being "anti-women"?

No, feminists inflate the issues making it seem that women are so oppressed and the victims of an invisible foe trying to keep them down. Yet they vote, just like men, can attend colleges, just like men, get paid fairly, just like men, and have more rights when it comes to certain things because of the feminist movement. More, which shows that feminism is about supremacy not about equality. Women have near complete say over what happens to their children and the child's father. Men do not get to opt out of fatherhood without social and legal backlash. Women, on the other hand, chose whether the child even gets to breath his or her first breath and can put the baby up for adoption without the father knowing. She is supported in this by feminism. It is touted as her choice while men are expected to play along. No, not expected, forced. That's supremacy.

Now take all of that, all of the above, and ask if it's really just about equality and choice. Let's say I stand up and say men should have an equal say in what happens with their children before and after birth. Would I be a feminist then? Let's say I say women get paid fair wages and we need to stop focusing special treatment for women in the workforce. Would I be a feminist then? How about I point out how all the preferential treatment of girls in schools around the country and even over in the UK are causing boys to fall completely behind and then go on to say girls don't need this treatment and we need to be doing something for the boys. Do you think I could maintain my feminist card, then? Even though I still believe in equality and choice?

As I am sure you can tell I can go on and on about this. But if feminism is really just about choice and equality than there is no need for feminism.

FleetingWish · 2013-09-13T23:26:50+00:00

I love how the comic has word bubbles carefully coming out from nowhere to represent society. But where do these insults actually come from? Remember when we insult someone there's a rationality behind it.

Fat Girl

People who make fun of her include men, rp men, rp women, and former fat people.

Why? Because she is not taking care of herself, which really we don't care about at all. Our problem comes into play where she is fat and doesn't care about what men want, but still expect men to want her. In other words expecting men to care about her needs while not caring about his. Former fat people are especially notorious because they know what it's like to be fat, but they also have contempt for them because they know how hard it takes to get rid of the fact, but they also know that it can be done.

"Sexy" Girl

People who make fun of her are women.

Why? Mostly because women are envious of her. Women want there to be something wrong with a girl like that, because it justifies them not being like that.

Geek Girl

People who make fun of her are "popular" kids.

Why? Because geeks tend to be socially awkward, and it's uncomfortable having someone socially awkward around. Also, she doesn't take care of her appearance, and they are ostracizing her for that. The popular kids take care of their appearances, and she's just lazy to them.

"Scantily-clad" Girl

People who make fun of her are women.

Why? This is similar to the "sexy" girl, accept there is another mechanism here. Women know that scantily-clad women are baiting men with their looks. Women resent them for succeeding in this, because, more often than not, there is nothing beyond their "scantily-cladness". Women hate that men don't care and will sleep with them anyway. Of course, they neglect that the end result of this is the pump and dump.

Housewife

People who make fun of her are feminists.

Why? Because feminists believe that women who are dedicating themselves to housework are setting back the gender back 100 years. That's right, the people who made this comic are associating themselves with the same people who "made fun of" this woman. No, it's not true that all feminists dislike housewives, but they are also the only group of people who hate housewives.

Working Women

People who make fun of her tends to be red pill people.

Why? Because they understand that a woman's first priority should be to her husband, not her job. Now not all red pill theory is against working women, but we do dislike people who put their careers before their husbands and just expect their husbands to come along for the ride.

See, the problem is that we can't say "you should never be mean to anyone ever", because "meanness" serves a purpose. It either serves the purpose of shaming someone for not taking care of themselves (hopefully encouraging them to change that), or it serves the purpose of making the initial person feel better, by putting the recipient down. We're going to have people look down on us in our lives, but what we need to do is identify which one it is. Because if it's the first kind, we should better ourselves. And if it's the later, because they are envious, then you shouldn't feel bad about it.

Regardless, everyone makes judgements of other people, either silently or outloud (even feminists). No amount of "feminism" will stop that.

Edit: I also saw that the moral of the story was "free to decide how I want to be and act". This is typical feminist feel good bull-shit. It's fine to do what you want and act how you want, but where feminists piss me off is they also want there to be no consequences for "being and acting" however they want. If they act like a bitch to people, do they really expect people to treat them nicely, because "I can feel free to decided how I want to act"?

2013-09-14T00:01:49+00:00

I do. I don't see any conflict between feminism as it pertains to equal agency with equal acceptance of consequences for men and women, and TRP.

Feminism's about having the individual autonomy to make choices about your life's path, TRP is about understanding which choices are going to ACTUALLY get you what you want, rather than making the choices you think should entitle you to what you want (ie: want a particular kind of man? Be prepared to give him what he wants, versus what you think he SHOULD want).

I don't see why the two have to be in conflict, given my definition of feminism. Most feminists don't practice it that way, though.

2013-09-14T02:37:42+00:00

The issue is, there's no actually good reason to be any kind of feminist. Someone said to me, "But aren't you against rape?" "Yeah." "So you are a feminist!" "The flipping Mormons are against rape too, doesn't make me a feminist."

2013-09-14T00:42:04+00:00

[permanently deleted]

2013-09-14T01:27:49+00:00

feminism=caring what other women think more than you care what men think or even what you think.

thats it. full stop. theres nothing else that really defines it. it certainly doesnt give a rat's ass about or take into account what men think at all or what regular women actually WANT.

who cares what women think, they are your competition and--in the post sexual revolution, no-fault divorce world that has ensured almost all women end up on the market way to long or being thrust back into the market to compete with every new 18 year old--most likely your explicit enemy. they dont have your best interest at heart, most of what they tell you will be bad advice to undermine your status relative to theirs "who cares if youre fat!! theyre just shallow, you go girl, with you curves!!" "i LOVE your hair short!!!"

"feminism" didnt invent women working, or being professionals, or having influence outside the home or being academics or being artists or ANYTHING it claims it did. women who wanted to ALWAYS DID WHATEVER THEY WANTED TO...they just didnt care about their reputation among WOMEN. josephine marcus ran away from a wealthy jewish home in san francisco in the late 1800s when she was 14 to become an "actress" and a prostitute in the old west, she died famous as wyatt earps common law wife for over 40 years. think she needed feminism to guide her? "empower her" to be independent? think she cared what "women" thought of her choice? no.

feminism is was and always will be a movement of defective women demanding herd acceptance because as most women are herd animals the terror of being literally "egregious", OUTSIDE the herd, was more important to them than society and civilization, and families staying intact and men and children and babies and everything on earth but their own need to NOT BE JUDGED by their peers as wanting.

TempestTcup · 2013-09-14T13:40:09+00:00

The problem with feminism is that the whole movement has been completely taken over by the loudest, screechiest most unfeminine women possible. I do believe that they want to be protected from all responsibility.

They also have that annoying hang-up about privilege with "thin privilege" "white privilege" "male privilege" "anything I hate privilege". No one has privilege in reality, even rich and beautiful people have problems they have to deal with.

These same feminists are also very hostile towards any woman that doesn't toe the Team Woman line.

2013-09-14T02:43:47+00:00

I have a problems with feminism as its presented here.

1) these are extremely varied lifestyles. The mere diversity necessitates that feminism have a wide tent. A woman that has been a stay at home mom for twenty years and a woman that is childless and a top flight cooperate lawyer for twenty years might understand each other, and even like each other, but they have vastly different interests and needs from society. It seems unlikely and naive to think these women can be represented equally and fairly by one idea.

2) this egalitarian ideology leaves out billions of women. What about brown or black women? What women about women that wear hijabs, sares, or niqabs (Burqas)? Most feminists I hear tell me these women aren't actually making choices but have been brain washed. Where do they fit in on this comic? What about Mormon women that are practicing polygamy in far off mountain compounds? These women aren't respected and left alone for their choices, they're mocked and pitied. Where do they fit in on your comic? What about a white women in a trailer park in North Dakota? Or a black woman in a housing project? Your comic offers nothing for these poor women. No solutions nor explanations of their problems. Their lives won't be changed by society changing their attitudes towards them. We've never had more women in positions of economic and political power and poverty has never been worse nor have the effects of poverty ever been worse for women. I wonder if the problem is that things like traditional marriage shielded mothers from generational poverty, have been systematically shredded and society is simply unable to be a barrier. When I saw your comic I thought of a new study that was just published about poor women's life expectancy getting worse (as in it went down) and I almost want to ask, so what?

In light of these two points, I think you'd agree feminism, as its presented in your comic, in either inconsequential or hypocritical to most people. This is not an attack, I'd love to hear a refutation if you have anything you need to clear up for me.

etherael · 2013-09-14T09:44:17+00:00

It's a somewhat poisonous insinuation really, it reminds me of a quote I once heard;

"Don't set out to raze all shrines -- you'll frighten men. Enshrine mediocrity -- and the shrines are razed"

One does not demand respect, one commands respect.

The act of "demanding" respect implicitly denies the autonomy of others to choose what they will respect. If everyone has a right to respect it implies that the entire concept becomes meaningless. When all people hold all other people in equal esteem you have implicitly eliminated the concept of anyone being held in esteem above or below anyone else and thus the concept of holding a person in high esteem becomes incoherent, and in practice this often results in people holding one another in the amount of esteem they would otherwise hold for the lowest common denominator.

The comic pretends that the criticisms are from a singular source and directed at a singular target and change based on the choices that target makes with disrespect the only constant, which only conceals the fact that the targets and the sources are always different. People subjectively respect some choices and do not respect others.

The price of autonomy is accountability for the consequences of your actions. It is the height of self delusion to wax lyrical on the virtues of freedom and bemoan the burdens of the consequences thereof.

2013-09-14T16:46:17+00:00

feminism is also the application of the marxist project of class levelling among men to women. women had several classes, aristocratic wife, helpmeet worker wife, maidens, courtesan(todays modern single sexually active woman), servant/slave/drudge(todays modern working women), crone

only wives and maidens had status to men and women, courtesans had status to men alone, servants slave and crones had little or no status to anyone and are analogous to the lowest forms of worker in marxism

the feminist project sought to demote the wives and maidens and uplift the status of courtesans, servants and crones to the same level--in EVERYONES eyes

RPW's thoughts on a particular version of feminism?

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Title	RPW's thoughts on a particular version of feminism?
Author	alice_loves_smoky
Upvotes	8
Comments	73
Date	September 13, 2013 10:53 PM UTC (12 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/RedPillWomen
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/RedPillWomen/comments/1mcg2u/rpws_thoughts_on_a_particular_version_of_feminism/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/RedPillWomen/rpws-thoughts-on-a-particular-version-of-feminism.83986 https://theredarchive.com/post/83986