I don’t know if I can call myself a feminist yet because I’m still learning a lot and I just don’t feel like I know enough yet to be able to wear that mantle respectfully.
But I certainly try my damndest to recognize sexism and avoid it at every juncture.
I am a 24 year old man. Last year I came home to visit family for Christmas. I went to the popular bar of my hometown.
An older women, probably forties, kept dancing on me and grinding on me without permission and despite the clearly uncomfortable expression on my face. Also she was with an older gentleman who kept glaring at me like I was flirting with his wife or girlfriend or whatever she was.
Then she came up to my ear and whispered that I was a “cutie pie” and fully grabbed my penis and testicles and then walked away.
I felt so trapped in that moment. There was so much anger in me, but what disturbed me was that the entire time it was happening, all I could think about was “how do I need to behave right now so that this woman doesn’t get me in trouble for something?”
Like, I felt that even if I were to tell her that she was making me uncomfortable by touching my body, that would somehow backfire and end up getting me in trouble, like she might accuse me of insinuating something inappropriate.
Basically I felt powerless in that moment because I didn’t want her to continue molesting me, but I was afraid of what consequences might befall me if I were to say anything to her about it or physically remove her from me.
My question pertains to males here who are GENUINELY feminist. Have you had any experiences like this?
I just find it troubling and slightly ironic that the entire time I was being molested, all I could think about was “if I don’t play this exactly how I’m supposed to, I might end up being the one accused of doing something inappropriate.
I’m wondering where that fear stems from and why that was my reaction to being sexually assaulted. I’m slightly worried that it stems from some sort of suppressed sexism lurking within me, but maybe it’s something else.
I could use some help with this, especially if you’re a male feminist who has been in a similar situation. Was my reaction during my sexual assault based in repressed sexism? Or was my reaction still in line with feminism?
[–]Lethn 26 points27 points28 points (4 children) | Copy Link
There it is! That's the denial I was expecting, they're trying to direct his attention away from the woman who attacked him and focus purely on the mythical 'patriarchy'. He's being oppressed by other men don't you know guys, it's not just that this one woman treated him like shit all by herself it was the patriarchies fault.
This by the way is why I tell all these self-proclaimed moderate feminists who hang out in these subs and try to lecture us about feminism to fuck off. You see them posting and acting all sympathetic but they have done nothing, nothing to call out the feminists who are making excuses for the woman's behaviour and trying to downplay it.
They fucking know these people exist, they know they are not a 'fringe' or 'outliers' they are lying about the people that are in this movement and this thread is a great example where you have the patriarchy obsessed pricks telling the man who's been sexually assaulted by a woman that it's him being oppressed rather than just the individual woman being responsible for her own actions.
Every time I read this shit it reminds me of why I'm so against feminists in the first place, fuck them, they're not mature or intelligent enough to talk about sexual assault and this is why. On a personal level as well imagine being that much of a cunt you go to a support thread for a guy who has been some serious shit in his life only to have a bunch of women make it all about them. Feminism breeds resentment of women this way and it will be one of the big reasons why men are committing suicide because they can't get genuine help without being lectured at about the fucking patriarchy constantly and being reminded that they're oppressed they're not acknowledging what he went through in the slightest.
[–]Dunkolunko 15 points16 points17 points (2 children) | Copy Link
"Feminist theory draws the conclusion that patriarchal oppression is the primary root of gender-related harm. For example: your fear of being falsely accused IS valid. Society does assume that men are more capable of sexual aggression. But WHY does this assumption exist?"
Because feminism PROMOTES this assumption! This is what THEY ASKED FOR!
[–]Oncefa2 12 points13 points14 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Do you know what would do a lot to overturn those gender assumptions about men?
Admitting that women are not disproportionately abused compared to men. That domestic violence and sexual assault are not gendered, and women are just as likely to be perpetrators as men.
And do you know who is the most adamant in denying this?
Feminists.
They will defend this narrative tooth and nail if you bring it up.
Which means that feminists are part of the patriarchy, and MRAs are the only ones active in fighting it. Per their own logic.
[–]Lethn 5 points6 points7 points (0 children) | Copy Link
This is why it's so important to understand how feminists even define their own terminology. It lets you understand how they come to the conclusions that they do when you're arguing with them a lot of the time they're just outright making up their own definitions which is why they come across as utter lunatics to anyone with a working knowledge of English.
[–]user_miki 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Ok men they give new meaning to the word gaslighting.
The manipulation They will make me apologize you while they put a knife in your back.
- Sorry masta' that my body was in the way of your knife.
[–]Dunkolunko 11 points12 points13 points (2 children) | Copy Link
He was clearly afraid to react in case he was blamed or falsely accused of being the real perpetrator, being a man, a concept that is feminism's baby and which has completely gone over every respondant's head.
[–]tenchineuro 3 points4 points5 points (0 children) | Copy Link
As a male feminist, I don't think he can have such an idea.
[–]antilopes -2 points-1 points0 points (0 children) | Copy Link
His fear would also be valid in a purely non-feminist or pre-feminist context.
The feminists accept his specific fear about false accusation as a man. Nobody has tried to minimise it or claimed it is unfounded, and I don't think it would go over anybody's head.
The women don't have that exact male experience of false accusation so they refer to their female experience of fear of false accusation. They aren't claiming it is identical, just that assault victims paralysed by fear they will not be believed is very common and distressing. (Not just by gender, it applies to all ages too).
I was pleased to see he did bite back at one person who I guess went too far in equating M and F experience.
[–]duhhhh 6 points7 points8 points (3 children) | Copy Link
That is way more supportive than I've seen previously for a man victimized by a woman.
[–]Dunkolunko 25 points26 points27 points (2 children) | Copy Link
Because he preceeded it with 4,000 caveats and expressions of humble servitude to the altar of feminism.
[–]david_koresh_patriot 11 points12 points13 points (1 child) | Copy Link
It was hard to read because it was so pathetic that he can't see WHY he didn't like being assaulted and even thinks it's "repressed sexism".
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
The very definition of a doormat. Only he's letting an ideology walk all over him.
[–]tenchineuro 6 points7 points8 points (2 children) | Copy Link
Well, if you're of the feminist persuasion, only men can be guilty of sexual assault, so he is clearly responsible in some fashion. He should turn himself in to the police probably, to be a good feminist anyway.
[–]antilopes 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
To preserve social distancing he could just cut off the offending genitals and mail them to police.
[–]5th_Law_of_Robotics 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
She was drinking and he assaulted her with his disgusting man genitals!
[–]Moronic-Simpleton[S] 4 points5 points6 points (12 children) | Copy Link
It's heartbreaking. Thankfully, most comments were supportive.
[–]Lethn 10 points11 points12 points (10 children) | Copy Link
They ignored completely the women who were trying to blame the patriarchy for everything and remind him he's oppressed. This is why feminists are idiots and aren't the people to be leading the conversation on sexual assault and rape, I'm betting as well that the feminists who regularly brigade us over what we talk about are probably the same people in that thread.
[–]Moronic-Simpleton[S] 0 points1 point2 points (9 children) | Copy Link
I was just glad that the top comments were empathetic. I think a lot of people who identify as feminists are genuinely good people, they say they're feminists because that's how they were raised and they think not being a feminist = being sexist. But Feminism is flawed as an ideology (flawed might even be an understatement at this point) and I agree that someone who identifies as a feminist will be most likely biased.
[–]Lethn 12 points13 points14 points (3 children) | Copy Link
They're not good people, if they were, they would have kicked out the patriarchy conspiracy theorists long ago but a lot of them believe in it themselves. The fact that they hold us to such ridiculous standards and attack us for even allowing MTGOW to post here while they let far worse on their subs says a lot about them. It must be horrible being a man in a feminist group surrounded by people like that constantly the guy was openly terrified about speaking out because he knew what people were like there.
[–]Moronic-Simpleton[S] -1 points0 points1 point (2 children) | Copy Link
What I meant is that most people who identify as feminists don't really know that much about it and don't really do any activism. I feel like if I were to ask any random person at my school if they were a feminist or not they would be like "um... I guess?". Feminism at this point has become the status quo since it's now being discussed at school and very young children are hearing about it and learning that feminism is the cure of sexism and racism and everything bad in the world. But if they were to see what feminist activists were doing and thinking, they would have their definition of what feminism is shattered.
[–]Lethn 6 points7 points8 points (1 child) | Copy Link
Yeah ignorance is no excuse as far as I'm concerned, these are the same time of idiots who hear the words Tommy Robinson or Count Dankula and immediately assume 'Nazi' because they allow the media to feed them narratives. Why is it that they get to attack people they know nothing about and yet they get to support people who act like criminals and thugs to everyone they disagree with with impunity?
This is why I despise the mob so much, they revel in their ignorance on topics and attack anyone who calls them out then try to pretend they're innocent when they come to these subs and go "Woops! Sorry guys, I know I assumed these people were nazis and misogynists when I didn't do any research on them and just believed what the media told me but we're cool right?"
It's one thing when they're genuine, but how many of these shit heads simply didn't care to know the truth vs did their research and realised they were lied to? I'm not going to pretend that I was perfect in this regard but I at least put effort into finding things out and that's how I came here. These feminists are doing the exact same shit, they are not good people, they're just going to flip sides when they see which way the wind is blowing and it's important to be careful of people like that in case they try to infiltrate the new movement springing up.
I'm going on a massive tangent but it pisses me off, this is why for example I question feminists on the patriarchy and toxic masculinity to oust them. They can't help themselves when it comes to these terms so it's pretty hilarious but they're already trying to get into MRM and pretend to be sympathetic to men's rights when really they're just trying to start the same shit all over again. One tactic they like doing as they've done in that thread is to make it out they care about men and then proceed to rant about how men are being harmed by traditional 'gender roles' which they have no intention of giving up and help enforce themselves.
[–]Moronic-Simpleton[S] -1 points0 points1 point (0 children) | Copy Link
I’m not talking about people who attack others on social media or call others nazis. I’m talking about people who mind their own business without harming anyone and that are not against feminism because they’re not interested in politics or they just don’t know much about it, and those people will usually be labeled as feminists because it has become the ideology by default. To this day, unless you’re explicitly saying you are not a feminist, many people will just assume you are, and those who don’t participate in politics and who don’t use social media to harass others will be assumed to be feminists as well, and they won’t deny it because they’re not against feminism. Those people are not bad people. They just don’t care. They don’t know who Count Dankula is, or Tommy Robinson. These people just watch Pewdiepie, play games, talk to their friends about music, walk in the park, etc. And since they don’t care and they believe in equality they are considered feminists by feminists. That’s the case where I live, at least.
[–]tenchineuro 3 points4 points5 points (4 children) | Copy Link
Why?
[–]Moronic-Simpleton[S] 3 points4 points5 points (3 children) | Copy Link
Because so many people still think feminism only means wanting men and women to be equal. They have good intentions.
[–]tenchineuro 3 points4 points5 points (2 children) | Copy Link
After spending decades arguing with feminists (mostly women) I can say without a shred of doubt that most have no good intentions at all, they willingly and knowingly support things that will harm their sons and husbands and they think that's the right thing to do.
So why do you support them in their support of outright and blatant misandry?
[–]Moronic-Simpleton[S] 3 points4 points5 points (1 child) | Copy Link
Those feminists you argued with, were they activists? Did they go out of their way to show that they were feminists? Because I’m not talking about those people. I’m talking about those who live their day to day lives without thinking about feminism. When I was young I didn’t think about it, but if you asked me if I was a feminist I answered "sure" because I was raised in an environnement where feminism was seem as good by my parents and my teachers and the entertainment I consumed. However I was not a misandrist. Once I learned what being a feminist implied and once I saw all those crazy women spew their hateful ideas in public I quickly stopped identifying as a feminist. Some people haven’t really learned yet, that’s all. Most of them are just young and naive.
[–]tenchineuro 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
The vast majority of women don't do this. They don't really care what feminism does, they think it's in their best interest and men are whiners. So far the only recent exception is Cassie Jaye, who is not an MRA and finds the idea of being called an MRA disturbing.
Not the ones I argued with, at great length, in some cases 10 years or more.
[–]tenchineuro 4 points5 points6 points (0 children) | Copy Link
I'm not so sure, the first comment...
Please don't get down on yourself for the way you reacted in the moment. Freezing is a very common reaction, and worrying about the situation being turned around on you is, as well. And you're not wrong that our patriarchal society portrays men as more capable of sexual aggression than women. Your worry isn't incompatible with feminism at all.
I'm sorry you experienced that, and I hope you get answers here that you find helpful.
Was more supportive of feminism than the man, and it did not even mention the woman, much less hold her guilty of sexual assault.
EDIT: Well, I read about 1/3 of the comments and not one poster even mentioned the woman, much less held her responsible for sexual assault.
[–]5th_Law_of_Robotics 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Imagine feeling the need to apologize for being assaulted. That's common for male victims in feminist spaces like menslib.
We don't insist women apologize for being assaulted....
[–]PrekaereLage 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
^ On a sub that I once replied to without looking what sub the post was from, and got it removed and sent a warning, that my reply wasn't from a feminist with a feminist perspective, also he's asking himself if the way he feels is in line with feminism.\ \ But remember, feminism means equality, there's nothing more to it, if you believe in equality, you're a feminist!\ Fuck me. This guy is being abused by the only people that he's willing to turn to, he's blatantly indoctrinated into believing that he can only listen to guidance from within the cult, and that going against it makes him a sexist shitlord.\ He's going to reach much, much darker places than where he already is, and us internet randos can do nothing about it except turn away or watch. I don't want to see what happens when he snaps or commits suicide.
[–]DougDante 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Tweet with me to seek justice:
End
[–]mgtowolf 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Lemme guess, the thread is full of cunts yelling at him for assaulting that poor girl's hand with his disgusting genitals?