A friend of mine asked what activism does the mra take against men vs men cases, but I wasn't able to answer her.

sayshey · 2020-03-27T14:55:44+00:00

The biggest problem people have is that they falsely believe that if you're for men's rights then you must be for taking away rights from women. In reality there is no versus anyone.

The items your friend labeled as men/women vs men, it's not, it's society vs men. Men spend more time in prison, but Hilary Clinton as part of her platform was looking to reduce prison sentences for women. Men are more likely to be victims of violent crime but the overwhelming priority is to make women feel safe.

Where I live there is a great concern over missing indigenous women. It's a real issue, these people come from crazy poor circumstances and can live brutal lives. They don't mention that there are 3 times as many indigenous men missing. No one even cares when you tell them.

The real purpose of the fliers like that one are there to make you think about how things aren't quite the way we think they are.

As for action, if you even do so much as speak out against something that should be as universally loathed as circumcision in any space outside this one you will receive a mountain of hatred. I attended a Men's Rights conference once, we were protested by some local socialist group who had no interest in talking and didn't have anything they were protesting against other than 'MRAs'.

Whatever the psychology at work is, there is something that makes it very hard to listen to men's issues even as a man... until of course you find yourself on the wrong side of it all, then it all gets pretty clear.

Dunkolunko · 2020-03-27T14:05:34+00:00

The last two problems are men vs women and men in the state. It's not an issue that only applies to male judges, jurors etc.

Warren Farrel and co. have been talking to candidates about creating a council for men and boy's but nobody is very interested. http://whitehouseboysmen.org

There is lobbying by MRAs on various issues but their voices are very small and very unpopular. Most average Joes can only commentate and try to spread awareness. Men's rights are in no way purely an men vs women issue, in many cases it's simply societal bias and apathy that applies similarly or equally to both sexes.

BornFreeWE · 2020-03-27T15:08:12+00:00

None of cases are men vs. men. This group thinking is the base of sexism (or is allready sexism - depending on the understanding). Very common among feminism influenced people.

Majority victims of violent crimes:

It's correct that most perpetrators of these crimes are men but not the group of men. To prevent that we have to clear up the counterproductive feminist's narratives like 'men are always safe'/'the reason for male violence is toxic masculinity/patriarchy'.

Then we have to takle the thinking 'it's ok to hit/hurt men' - which is also heavily propagated by feminists.

It's a hughe and complicated topic which goes from gender roles (obiligation to provide), inadequte support from society, media depiction ... to institutionalized vioelence.

Longer prison sentences/imprisonment:

Basically a biased law system, gendered laws and also biased society. Society expects much harsher punishment if the perp is male.

No actual action... funny right? The male privilege in a 'men's world' includes not to be able to do actual actions. Men's rights activism is shunned and silienced by the 'patriarchy' and feminism.

Ketsuni · 2020-03-27T14:48:24+00:00

2 of those seem like government ones... yes, we can say that men make up a majority of those roles, but entities are a little different from individuals. For example, feminists wouldn't blame women for the education gaps, despite women making up a majority of educational roles. There are social issues that influence both, and those are what need to be addressed.

The violent crimes one, though... that one she's got a point on.

user_miki · 2020-03-27T14:31:44+00:00

Yeah ,Why men don't stop other men.

Pitting men against each other, one group again another collectively,

Collective guilt versus individual one.Where I heard that before?

genkernels · 2020-03-27T20:32:25+00:00

And she said the bottom 3 are men vs men...What would your response be.

Men are involved in almost every men's rights issue. Child custody? Most judges are male. DV law? most politicians are male. Saying "oh, but men do these things" as if that is abnormal or changes anything...isn't that sexist?

Then she asked what action does the mra take to prevent it.

First of all, there is more than one MRA. I know, MRAs seem like Borg sometimes, but we're really not. Second of all the bottom three things are not something can be readily changed in parliament (like most feminist issues, unlike most MRM issues). The bottom two require dealing with systemic bias with respect to judges, and that is not something that can be easily dealt with legislation, nor civil lawsuit neither. In terms of solid action, the best thing to do right now is to bellyache about it until people hear, and that's exactly what's being done.

The top one of the bottom 3 is the feminist being dishonest. Does the MRM want to increase the proportion of women facing violent crime? No! But there is a reason why that is listed there that perhaps one might wish to pay attention to. Her also saying the bottom 3 are men vs men is missing something. Both item #1 and #3 are also that, and should've been plainly apparent.

DubsPackage · 2020-03-27T20:08:27+00:00

The last 3 being crime related, I'll put my thoughts out there. None of the things I'm about to say are factual, it's the way I'm interpreting it and I'm not interested in giving an opinion on why those statistics are those statistics but rather why men commit crime which leads to crime statistics. Which is the first way my opinion differs from feminism, people who commit crime have crime in common, not gender.

The way I see it is that the reason people resort to crime can be put in 3 big categories;
People down on their luck, social vs economic competition in regards to traditional gender roles and people who want to do things that are illegal. I'm not going in on the last one as that's not really relevant.

For people who are down on their luck it's not hard to imagine what I mean, addicts, homeless people, getting fired at a bad time, divorces things like that can and most often will put you in the metaphorical or literal gutter. If you lose your social and economic safety net and you're left with nothing, it's understandable that you're going to commit crimes like theft or burglary or whatever. The big offset here is that women tend to have a far greater social safety net than men. See the topic of male loneliness, and all the agencies/resources women have access to that men don't so they can keep standing on their feet.

Competition and gender roles group is mainly explained by the gini index if you keep in mind that men historically and still are expected to provide. What do men need in order to get a got shot at finding a good partner. Money, statstatus oks you name it.
In here the gini index perfectly displays that men who cannot compete with men in a legal economic way often resort to illegal ways to gain money and status (gangs).
Which leads into a separate topic of discrimination against minorities but that's not relevant here. This particularly isn't limited to men btw, women also compete with other women in these ways. Albeit traditionally the money and status came from their husbands in most cases, nowadays they too seek their own money and status through legal and illegal manners in accordance to the gini index. The big offset here is that men still are far far more pressured into competition to get a (good) partner because that's the standard they're subjected to. Whether that's cultural, biological or gendered is a debate on its own and not up to me.

Title	A friend of mine asked what activism does the mra take against men vs men cases, but I wasn't able to answer her.
Author	Fuckevrbody
Upvotes	10
Comments	9
Date	March 27, 2020 1:34 PM UTC (6 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/fpx0vq/a_friend_of_mine_asked_what_activism_does_the_mra/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/a-friend-of-mine-asked-what-activism-does-the-mra.856175 https://theredarchive.com/post/856175

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