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Liber-TEA
[–]quickquestionfor 18 points19 points20 points 12 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
In your previous submission to /r/ainbow you said you were trying to troll accused homophobic subreddits and then immediately posted this here? Also with the cross post of this thread as well? At least try a bit harder.
TRP is not homophobic. It discusses sexual strategy from the masculine viewpoint. Of course it speaks to the default type which are male and female relations. So any views on lgbt people are individually held and not subreddit wide.
[–][deleted] 12 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
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[–]30years 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
This smacks of a lack of intellectual integrity which it seems you wish to present yourself as having (in all of your redditing, not just here.)
[–][deleted] 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]30years 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
But you then to state or imply in many areas the ideas presented here are not correct, yet you refuse to state any positive defense of your own convictions. It makes you look as if you have no rational basis for your beliefs and no refutation for the ones presented to you here.
Can you at least provide some substance to what you believe and why or actually refute the points presented to you here?
[–]Laughing_Jelly_Bean 9 points10 points11 points 12 years ago (22 children) | Copy Link
Does this sub, subs like it, and it's supporters support traditional gender roles? If so, why, and why are other forms of gender roles invalid? Why should gender roles exist at all?
Gender roles are instinctual and biological. Going against biology will just cause dissatisfaction.
Does this sub have a problem with lesbians and transgendered people?
No.
[–][deleted] 12 years ago (21 children) | Copy Link
[–]30years 7 points8 points9 points 12 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
I am newer here, but I think I can field this one.
Most people (including psychologists) believe sexual orientation, gender identity, etc. are predominantly influenced by biology/genetics and secondarily by environment.
Most of the people I've seen here at The Red Pill also believe some gender roles are also just as much influenced by biology/genetics.
From a behavioral standpoint that would mean that for most women being the recipient of a male's protection, provision, commitment is somewhat hard wired into their brain. They instincually will seek out the highest value male who can provide good genetics as well as protection, provision and a long-term commitment. This, coupled with her desire for children, allows her to get the things she desires.
Hard wired into most men is an intense desire for sexual fulfillment, achievement and accomplishment. A man desires to mate with the highest value females available to him and will often trade commitment to a long-term relationship in order to receive the sexual attention of a high value female.
Anyone who can explain this better or correct anything I missed, feel free to do so.
[–]Liber-TEA -2 points-1 points0 points 12 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
I should have been more clear. I'm also an Objectivist. We hold that instinct is completely secondary to free will in a sentient mind. Sentience overrules any bred-in concept.
[–]30years 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Objectivism as a concept only works in theory. In practice our instinct is a constant tide pulling us in a consistent direction. While a few people will choose to use constant disciplines to attempt to thwart the pull of instinct, it will be a constant effort for them. Some people will avoid some of the pull of instinct, but in the end the vast majority of humans will operate instinctively then justify their actions with rationalizations or pseudo-logic.
Ayn Rand was a tremendous thinker but not all of her ideas are accurate nor practiced in the "real world" - even though many wish they were.
[–]Liber-TEA 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
The fact that most people attempt to use instinct doesn't make it right, and it still all boils down to yourmfree will.
[–]30years 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I wasn't saying what was "right" - which is an interesting word to try to define in this context - but what is true. Huge difference.
What I said is true, though you and Ayn might think it is not the best.
[–]Laughing_Jelly_Bean 5 points6 points7 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Well, that's part of the redpill theory.
Behavior patterns are instinct in many animals. Mating dances in birds, rutting in sheep and deer. etc.
Redpill believes that humans are not exempt from this, and traditional gender behavior roles are as genetic as in any other animal.
Sentience and free will make us more than base instinct. Man cannot live on instinct alone.
Agreed, and most of us choose, at times, to ignore our instinctual drives, but humanity as a group will follow those instincts. That's a key concept you might be missing.
A small group of people will ignore their drives, sometimes due to societal pressure, but the group, as a whole, will fall into a bell curve of actions consistent with their instinct.
[–]12FAM0US 6 points7 points8 points 12 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
How are they "instinctual and biological"?
additionally, differing hormone levels contribute to different behavior. sure, you can raise a male to act like a female, and vice versa. it happens a lot, nowadays. but that is not taking advantage of their true biological potential given their intuitive hormonal drives.
[–]Liber-TEA 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
And every individual is unique. Why raise a child to a stereotype, instead of him or herself?
[–]12FAM0US 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
you are operating under the notion that it is socially constructed, which is an archaic idea from old outdated 1970s feminism. boys should raised as boys and girls raised as girls. later in life they can choose to be who they want, but at least give them a default that matches their hormones.
[–]Liber-TEA 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
Why? Why make them conform to some standard, instead of letting them grow up as they do?
[–]12FAM0US 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
you aren't MAKING them do anything. if my son wants to act like a girl i will be disappoint but ultimately it is his life and his choice. you gotta give them a starting point. might as well give them the role that feels right for most of their gender. you are acting like LGBT is a much larger community than it really is. sure, we shouldn't stigmatize or discriminate these people, but we cannot change our society, our culture, our traditions for a handful of people and their emotions.
And I would let my son grow up as he wants, shaped by his experiences and his observations. Straight, gay, trans, whatever.
[–]12FAM0US 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
let me know how that goes for ya. im gonna do my thing and you do yours and lets report back in a couple decades
[–]LaserSoundMusic 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Similar gender roles and social structures have arisen in nearly every culture. why do you think that is. The existence of transgendered people also supports this. a boy that "feels" he is a girl despite all social programming to the contrary?
What about cultures that don't, such as dual-spirit Native American societies?
Outliers actually tend to prove exactly what LaserSoundMusic was pointing out.
[–]noblepaladin 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Look at the sports world and take a look at the marathon times for men and women. Look at the weight lifting records for men and women. It should not surprise anybody that there are far more men than women in jobs like construction, law enforcement, fire fighting, etc, because they are jobs that require physical performance and there are far more men with high physical strength than women. This doesn't seem to bother people. However, this does show that there are biological differences in men and women that makes them better or worse at different roles.
When we start talking about other biological differences, for some reason people lose their shit. For example, women's fertility drops drastically in her 30s. The probability of Down Syndrome in a child increases something like 100x when a woman hits 35. This stuff is all scientifically proven (you can argue that some of the stuff here is pseudo-science, but not this), yet people get very uncomfortable when a guy who wants multiple offspring states that he prefers a woman in her early to mid 20s.
The brain is very adaptable, so women don't have to "stay in the kitchen". She can become a rocket scientist if she wants. But the cost function for men and women are very different due to the biological differences. Your happiness is dependent on what you give and what you get. With different cost functions, you have different optimal decisions.
[–]Liber-TEA -1 points0 points1 point 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
This is not always the case. A woman can be just as strong as a man.
That is a logical fallacy and not what notablepaladin was saying.
Of course a single woman can be stronger than a single man. You are making a straw man argument. Men, on the average, are physically stronger than women. Men, on average, are more aggressive than women. Testosterone produces those effects.
I'm sure the top woman weight lifter is much stronger than I. I am also confident I am personally stronger than 90% of women.
[–][deleted] 12 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link
[–]icallmyselfmonster 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I am the local Bi guy :p Yeah we are here. And in the months I have been there I have only ever seen 1 negative post and it was called out.
[–]Liber-TEA -1 points0 points1 point 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
There is a male and female principle in nature, for starters. It's not something that's socially engineered into us.
Not in all cases. See single-celled organisms that reproduce asexually.
I have a question for you: Does it ever strike you how, for billions of years, going back to your single-celled ancestors, the vast majority reproduced sexually, and that you will be the first in the entire lineage to not reproduce?
Does it matter? My orientation is one of indifference, the ignoring of the sexual. If a man or woman stood in front of me nude, I would feel nothing. It's not something that I can control, simply something that I am.
[–][deleted] 12 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 12 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
[–]Liber-TEA 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
Upon my searches of this sub's archives, I have seen a fair share of homophobia towards lesbians. To be fair, you guys do seem accepting of gay men, but lesbians get a pretty harsh treatment on here.
[–][deleted] 12 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link
You are replying to a comment that you didn't answer.
[–]TRP VanguardArchwinger 5 points6 points7 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
These questions don't really belong here. They're just off-base. The Red Pill isn't really about "roles" or about sexual orientation.
If I, confidently and dominantly, urge my wife to get out of the kitchen so I can cook dinner, shut down her bitching because I'm busy folding the laundry and don't have time to pay attention to her crap, then have a drink in front of the TV before bed because I like to unwind, then get laid by my wife because I'm a confident badass of a man who cooks a mean pork roast and puts the laundry away after working all day to support my family, what's my "gender role" exactly?
TRP is pretty basic stuff. Stuff that will make you say duh:
Women are attracted to confident men, not to pussies.
Women involved with men they no longer find attractive will eventually dump or cheat on those men (Men will dump or cheat on women they're not attracted to as well, but TRP isn't about women, it's about men, so TRP really isn't obligated to state this parenthetical every time it mentions that women cheat just to be politically correct) -- one symptom of lack of attraction is lack of sex.
Many of the traits that most women find attractive in men, such as appearence, body language, social skills, interesting hobbies, professional success, confidence, etc. can be learned or acquired, allowing a less attractive man to become more attractive -- and get more sex as a result.
The most attractive thing a man can do is stop giving a fuck and just be a badass. Get fit, get smart, get professionally successful, get socially skilled, get some interesting hobbies, and women will be attracted to you, because you've stopped making your life about women.
What do gender roles and sexual orientation have to do with any of this?
[–]strosst 4 points5 points6 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Yes necessarily. Most women like confidence in a man.
It's a double standard to mention that women will eventually cheat or dump men who aren't attractive to them? What?
3, 4. Okay, so we tell you that bettering yourself, learning more, stop giving a fuck, etc helps with women, and your only response is "Well not necessarily, it doesn't always work"? Sounds like you're just too lazy to put in the effort, you obviously don't fit in here.
[–]dabidniss 3 points4 points5 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I don't know if I'm welcomed in the community but it doesn't matter because as a transgendered guy (FTM) red pill theory makes the most sense.
Ever since taking it, I've been having success with straight women.
[–]Hokuten85 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link
I certainly cannot speak for everyone in this sub or everyone across the board, but the philosophies discussed in this sub actually seem to reflect what's going on in my every day life.
I was brought up very "blue pill". Kind, submissive, "equal", supportive, providing, selfless, chivalrous. I still do these things all of the time, but it doesn't necessarily always feel right. I know feelings are not a great indicator of reality, but to an extent I think it's influenced by a natural male biology.
More and more, I've been discovering how good it feels to stand up for myself. Put myself first. Focus on self improvement. Build my own confidence and hold myself to a higher more "manly" frame. The frame of mind is so much more satisfying. Emulating(because a lot of it is still emulation at this point) these stereotypical manly and alpha behaviors just feels more natural.
I still get the opportunity to provide and support, to be kind, and all that...but its from a frame where I am in charge. In realms that I am confident in myself, I am establishing myself as competition and it feels great. It feels right. After years and years of living with a different mindset, it's like a fog that's gone.
As far as the female role. I personally don't want to pin a chick to a particular role. I just don't want them to be a stupid cunt. I think the traditional role for women isn't necessarily a natural behavior, but it was a force behavior because of circumstance. Chicks develop babies and historically were at a severe disadvantage during that time frame they needed a provider. The provider wanted sex and the provider needed some kind of support to maintain a more suitable housing situation if they were off gathering resources for more than just themselves. It was a natural trade off.
Due to this trade off, evolution forced the genders down different paths. Men better at certain things, women at others. Generally developing Men into being better at things that Men care about doing.
Newly developed societal rules place artificial equalizers into daily life that have been allowing women to get by on top of a society built up by men. Men being artificially being dragged down makes the traditional gender roles seem silly...because why do you need a man now? Societal pressures and laws make it less necessary by extorting men. Just take it from men, and give it to women...and now you don't need that trade off women made for millions of years.
By following TRP, it pretty much teaches people to fly by different(original) rules so that you are no longer the subject of the extortion. Don't let society take whats yours and give it away to someone that's "weaker" and didn't earn it.
[–]Liber-TEA -1 points0 points1 point 12 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
What about women who want to be alpha in a relationship? Why do labels matter?
[–]Hokuten85 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
there are very few absolutes in regards to human nature, but there identifiable tendencies. the beta-alpha spectrum is a sliding scale, so I'd complete understand that instances of alpha women...but it'd be exception.
the society we live in currently is extremely feminine. it aggressively eliminates masculine traits and paints them as evil and wrong. it strengthens women's position by handicapping men. it gives women an extremely large amount of power in a relationship and "allows" them to be alpha. If society didn't fuck over men, you'd likely see fewer "alpha" chicks.
the labels don't really matter, but its a way to classify behaviors. natural male behaviors are severely suppressed in our current society. women are being handed everything in the name of equality...but its really far from equal.
[–]Liber-TEA -1 points0 points1 point 12 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
I know many alpha women, just to say.
I disagree about society. Look on television, in the media, or elsewhere. What do you see? Scantily clad women, "sports" and all the masculinity that entails, and other examples. For example, I would classify EVERY PERSON on Jersey Shore as an Alpha. It's neither masculine or feminine, just alpha. How many women do you see in positions of power in the US, or on television in a way other than "eye candy".
My point is that I don't see gender as something that matters. I look at individuals, rather than groups, and I judge an individual not by what they are, but by what they do.
[–]Hokuten85 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
while its a good thing to always consider people on an individual basis, you can't really formula a strategy based on any single person. the red pill strategy, like any, is based on perceived percentages and increasingly on scientific studies.
[–]Hokuten85 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
scantily clad women in advertisements is entirely female driven. those ads are targeting females, by females. they know what makes women tick. women compete with women with sex appeal. slut shaming is largely female driven. men love sluts. we just don't want to marry them for their tendencies to sleep around. they are a bad investment.
your comment actually provides proof to trp argument. alpha men give women gina tingles. this is based on observation of what seems to actually work with women as opposed to what women say they want. men these days are taught to be the nice guy...and then are horribly confused and pissed off when the ladies shun them and fuck the asshole. Sex isn't the entire end game, but its one of the goals. most men are literally driven constantly to want sex.
No, no, no, probably (but not always), no, Who is a nearly naked girl in a beer commercial supposed to appeal to? Not women. The concept of "slut" is a double standard, and a shitty one. The flipside could be said too, that women don't want to marry "players" for the same reason.
your comment actually provides proof to trp argument. alpha men give women gina tingles. this is based on observation of what seems to actually work with women as opposed to what women say they want.
I'm going to ignore your crassness. This is not always the case, and less and less so as time goes on. Is it sometimes? Yes, but this is not the norm, just a stereotype.
[–]Hokuten85 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Tell me how often you see a naked chick in a beer commercial vs how often you see a naked chick in a magazine that's targeting women...or some other advertisement that's targeting women. Ad agencies know the human psyche so well that they play off these tendencies to sell us shit. People think it's ads programming us...but it's ads using our own programming to amplify natural reactions to things.
Chicks don't want to marry players, but they certainly don't have issues sleeping with them...which is the end goal for a player anyway. Sex with no investment of resources.
Yes... it certainly was crass, but it was not inaccurate. Its an illusion that it's less and less as time goes on. This is largely why trp exists. The alpha men are literally having 70%+ of the sex. 10% of the male population is literally having 70% of the sex.
trp certainly isn't the ONLY way to have sex, but via actual experiences it's proven to work time and again. And it goes back to the female imperatives. 1) Mate with the highest quality male available and 2) secure resources for offspring.
The alpha's are, more often than not, leaders. Money, strength, health, attitude, winners. It's a percentages game. Biologically it makes sense for women to want these genes present in their offspring.
As for the second imperative, they have society to assist with the resource acquiring now. Women can now sleep around without trying to lock down a man. They can just force the government to fork over his resources at her whim.
Look what it's doing to society. The destruction of the family unit. I think everyone will agree that single parenthood is less effective than dual parents. We have generations of kids growing without fathers. Look at what it's done to the African American community.
[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 12 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
"Why should gender roles exist at all?"
I don't know man, why does the sun exist at all? Do we really need water on this planet? Or is it just a social construct to divide land and water based lifeforms from each other?
Actually, it was an answer. You just missed it.
If we evolved with certain instinctual preferences, then asking "why do gender roles exist" is just like saying "why does the sun exist."
I feel as if you came here with such a closed mind it is impossible for you to hear what people are saying.
I realized before I ever responded to you that you were unlikely capable of rationally considering these points, but I also know that others may read them and see truth they hadn't been exposed to before.
Do you consider yourself intellectually honest? Able to consider any viewpoints other than your own without resorting to logical fallacies? That's an honest question, not a rhetorical one. Intellectual honesty will serve you well in life and TRP is about helping people accept truths that might be uncomfortable.
[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
Yes, for heterosexual people. I haven't seen much here regarding thoughts on sexual orientation.
Maybe?
Something to realize is that this sub is far from being a cohesive mind-meld. The red pill breaks down to a) heterosexual women only go for men with alpha traits b) if you want a woman gain those traits.
[–]Liber-TEA -1 points0 points1 point 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
And what about women who don't?
[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Show me one that doesn't want alpha traits and I'll show you a million that do. We don't claim that it works on all women just the vast majority.
Women, in general, just like men, in general, go for the highest possible value person they can mate with. Mate selection is comprised of a group of highly complex factors and includes things like self-image, which is tough to measure.
TRP is not meant to address a specific person or a specific relationship, but is intended to address the generalities and probabilities surrounding male/female relations.
We can know that men are more likely to rate a woman's relationship potential based on her appearance. We can also know that men are more likely to value things like hip-waist ratio in judging that appearance.
By the same token, we know that most women want a financially secure man. Women, in general, tend to rate looks as less important than, say, a sense of humor.
These are generalities, but the goal of TRP is to help us navigate the highest probability actions/reactions to yield the best results for our personal relationship goals.
[–]icallmyselfmonster 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
I down voted you, I feel like you hold a lot of strong ideologies and prejudices from you tone. Which is ironic as although Online I identify as by I am more along the lines of Gender queer and have complex attraction mechanisms. Conversely I immensely enjoy sex but don't like physical or emotional contact. People don't like lies. But I don't like biased questions as it incentives people not to be truthful.
I wasn't hiding my bias, and I wanted a blunt answer. Like it or not.
[–][deleted] 5 points6 points7 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Are you a man or a woman?
[–]Liber-TEA -2 points-1 points0 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Man.
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[–]Liber-TEA -1 points0 points1 point 12 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link
And what is the difference in your mind, hmmm?
© TheRedArchive 2026. All rights reserved.created by /u/dream-hunter
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