The cheating whore is obviously the asshole if you have two braincells to rub together. Cheated on, lied to, only told about it when he went for custody. Yet he is the asshole. That sub is full of dumb fucks who live to blame everything on men no matter what it seems. I don't know why any man would post shit there, if you have a penis, you are gonna be the asshole lol.
doesn't change the part where the not bio kid did see him as a father and looked up to him
he's a human as well, place yourself in his shoes.
what if you had a brother you always looked up to who dropped you like a brick because he found out you where adopted? he would be in his right to do so but you can not agrue that it would sting like a bitch and give trust issues
doesn't change the part where the not bio kid did see him as a father and looked up to him
not HIS child, not HIS problem, not HIS liability.
place yourself in his shoes.
Stop attempting to play on our emotions, and stop victim blaming the man. You dont get to decide for us. Want us to be engaged? Dont take the decision from us. Of course decision is possible to change in the future, without notice.
Just like your decision that you have consented to sex can, apparently, change 30 years down the line nowadays. If men are going to prison based on a female's changing decision after the deed is done, we should have the same right, for EQUALITY.
jesus christ stop derailing the conversation into men's issues that have nothing to do with this specific topic, this is clearly a personal issue that should be handled as such. it's not a problem, it is a kid that he raised for almost his entire life that looked up to him.
go be an edgelord on mgtow because that's sadly where most of them retreated to.
and empathy is not ''playing on your emotions'' empathy is what makes us human. you should try it sometime.
i feel bad for the kid and i feel bad for the dad as well, hence why i said the situation is a difficult and personal one. neither of them is wrong perse and the kid is most definitely NOT a problem, he's a kid like you and me used to be (or like you still are i would guess)
yeah, what about you having any empathy to the real victim, the father that was not really a father, it turns out?
Oh, right. Mommy and HER baby must get what they want, and fuck the daddy/ATM/tool, right?
and IM the one lacking empathy here, you say?
i feel bad for the kid and i feel bad for the dad as well, hence why i said the situation is a difficult
its not "difficult" or "personal". Mom fucked up, she must pay. Man was a victim and he must be relived of ANY and ALL obligations resulting from her decisions and actions. He is not your sacrificial goat.
Those dumb idiots dont know what paternity fraud is. Yes the kid is innocent but so is he he now has to deal with a child that is a Produkt of Cheating
Yeah. Who he never met and who means nothing at all. On the other hand there is a man who raised that boy for 10 years. Wonder who he has more connection with...
Moms actions and lies are a problem. Kid is her responsibility, and a collateral damage - but the responsibility is not that guys to carry. He didnt sign up to her LIES, he didnt CONSENT to this situation being forced on him. He must be able to leave it behind, without penalties of any kind.
This guy doesn’t need to raise the kid that isn’t his, but to hang up on him, a kid that you raised for 10 years, because he wanted to talk? Yeah. That’s an asshole move.
The mom is a bigger asshole, but it’s not the kids fault. At least talk to him.
So "man up" and do something harmful to him for the sake of someone else who is not even his responsibility?
The wife was a cheating whore, the wife sprang it on him he was not the father as a custody dispute killer and a parting spit in the face in a divorce. I have been cheated on, that was bad enough, this on top of it, I could only imagine how much more salt to the wound something like that would be. Yeah, it sucks for the kid, but it's 100% the cheater's doing, and he has got to take care of himself and his own wellbeing first.
Did I say man up? No, the guy is allowed to have issues. But this isn’t the kids fault. Nobody is saying he needs to be in the kids life doing all kinds for things for him, but to HANG UP on him? He’s an asshole for that.
Nope, it's not the kid's fault that his mother is literally a cheating slut but at the same time that doesn't give him the right to go and contact him. I think it's kind of harsh if he was raising him until he was 10 and he just cuts off contact like that but again. This is entirely the mother's fault, she is the one who put them both in that awkward situation.
It pisses me off so much the way every single time in this situation people try and dump responsibility on the man. No, it isn't his responsibility, the mother in this situation is being an absolute bitch and you have these scumbags online who are trying to cover for what she did by attacking the man.
I think he could have handled himself better but he is not to blame for the mother's actions and neither is the teenager. It's also not the best plan of the teenager to just contact an estranged non-father right out of the blue like that when he knows he has nothing to do with the family.
Yes, because I don't patience for obvious sociopaths from IncelTears that come and pick a fight with me because they make the worst assumptions about people with zero context. You're fucking obvious, so don't even bother trying to start something, maybe readjust your attitude before you talk to people and you'll get better responses.
You seem to have a history of pulling this in the MRA sub as well and yes I have noticed.
It's a false impression you've made up in your head and now you're going to try and project that onto me. Honestly yes, to go back to your point. You don't have any 'right' to contact anyone the same way I don't have the right to go around pestering people in PMs and so on and so forth.
Amazing actually how many people can't seem to grasp this, you cannot as an individual force your way into somebodies' life. Posting on subs is another thing but don't be surprised if people see what you're doing and just downvote you and ignore you.
Strange. We would have told the son that he did nothing wrong by trying to contact the man he considered his father for more than half of his life.
Hell, we don't even know what exactly the boy knew. Does he even know he is not his biological father? If he does, does he know, why he left? If he does, how was his life with one of his most important male role models gone?
Yeah, it's the mothers fault, the father has no obligation whatsoever to the boy and has chosen to make his decision clear. But I have a feeling this whole thread is so focused on putting shame on the mother that the boy gets thrown under the bus completely.
Just to be clear: This is not about putting obligation on the asker, or absolving the mother. This is about not condemnig the fucking child that didn't ask to left behind.
but at the same time that doesn't give him the right to go and contact him
I mean, that's very much condemnig him. He shouldn't even try to reach out, because his feelings don't matter. The actions of a cheating, lying, (seemingly) heartless woman have tainted the boy by association.
Again, don't get me wrong, the asker has every right to not want contact. Hell, he can deny the very existence of the child. But I don't think trying to contact the man he knew as his father for half his life (or longer) is something that the boy needs a 'right' to do.
Why are you pinning everything on this random guy the mother suckered into a relationship an you are not holding the real father accountable? Again, you are lying that is not what people are doing in the slightest and no the son does not have any right to contact him that is not the same as condemning him.
You are doing everything in this situation to pin the blame on the guy rather than accept he has nothing to do with this situation.
Just courious. Where exactly did I imply any obligation on the guy?
I am not considering the real father because I don't have any information on him. All i know is that the asker was the only father the child knew for at least half of the boys life and that his mother is a cheating, lying whore. We don't even know if the real father knows about the boy.
What makes you think the son knew that the asker doesn't want to be contacted? How many posts right here are about fathers that wished their children would contact them, but they won't because their mothers lied about them? Would we say to a boy that asked right here, if he should reach out to his father, that he hasn't seen in 7 Years. We'd sure as hell won't tell him that he should suck it and that he has no right to reach out.
Also: How can I be lying when I cite what you wrote (confirmed and acknowledged as your opinion on that matter) and thinking that this is unnecesarrily cruel to say about the boy?
[EDIT]wrong tense[/EDIT]
[EDIT2]corrected an instance of "father" to "asker"[/EDIT]
I mean, that's very much condemnig him. He shouldn't even try to reach out, because his feelings don't matter. The actions of a cheating, lying, (seemingly) heartless woman have tainted the boy by association.
I bolded the parts for you since you can't seem to read your own posts.
I am not considering the real father because I don't have any information on him. All i know is that the asker was the only father the child knew for at least half of the boys life and that his mother is a cheating, lying whore. We don't even know if the real father knows about the boy.
That's exactly right, we don't know who the real father is, so don't you think that the boy should be more concerned finding out who he is rather than potentially stalking a random man that his mother suckered into a relationship in order to take care of the kid?
This is why I'm arguing with you and calling you a liar because by your own admission, again, you're not even considering the real father as an entity. So what if you don't have any information on him? She cheated with him, that means he actually existed at some point within this ridiculous situation and she probably won't say anything about it.
The guy in this situation is not the father, he was lied to and so was the kid, he is under no obligation to stay in contact with the child however harsh you might think it is. It's pissing me off because there are always, always people like you that seek to dump responsibility on the man in this situation even when he is actually the victim in this case.
I bolded the parts for you since you can't seem to read your own posts.
That doesn't pin any obligation on the asker. It just absolves the teen from wrongdoing.
But I also think we are taking wildly different approaches here. And we use wildly different assumptions in our argumentation. You obviously assume that the child knows that he contacted a person that is not his father. I'm sympathetic to what you said in this case, although I'd argue that I still understand the wish of the child to reestablish contact, and I would still not deny him the right to try at least once.
As far as I can tell, you also assume that the real father knows anything. Again that just would add another asshole to the scenario (while making neither the boy nor the asker one). But we both know that isn't necessarily true. The guy may have not even known that his one-night-stand was cheating with him. Yes, that's some assumptions on my side as well, but they are just as plausible as yours, considering our starting-line.
I don't think about the father as a non-entity, i consider him an unknown. I can, for the sake of argument, make different assumptions about him than I did until now, and my answers would be very different, but I do not like to assume more than necessary, and when I assume I'd like to base it on the things i do know for sure (as in: the mother is a habitual liar)
The guy in this situation is not the father, he was lied to and so was the kid, he is under no obligation to stay in contact with the child however harsh you might think it is
That's the funny thing. This is the part i can 100% agree with. Nothing harsh about it, just cold hard facts.
although I'd argue that I still understand the wish of the child to reestablish contact, and I would still not deny him the right to try at least once.
It is not his right to contact the guy, this is my problem with you and other users on this sub. At the same time you claim to agree with me that the man who is not the father is under no obligation to talk to this child then you contradict yourself by lobbying on the child's behalf very aggressively as if he should have the right to.
I'll throw you a bone here though and say that yes it could entirely be possible that the mother has lied to the son about who his father really is and she's painted him as a monster or something which definitely does happen and maybe that's why he ended up contacting him but we don't know the details of that.
The caller identified himself as my ex wife's son and said that he wanted to talk.
Going from this line it's entirely possible his mother lied to him.
It seems to me you're way too invested in this, you are confusing what you think is best for the child generally versus the legal rights of everyone involved and that is what I'm interested in. I'm not unsympathetic to the kid because it's entirely possible on top of the cheating his mother is going to try and lie about the situation and rationalise her actions by claiming he's the real father and a scumbag who left her but again we don't know any of that for sure aside from this guy's version of events and one line.
At the end of the day I stress, he is under no obligation here, that doesn't make him the bad guy and I think you're being incredibly unfair to him especially when you admit yourself you don't know the details of what's going on. You also have to ask why does the kid wait until he's that old to contact?
At the end of the day I stress, he is under no obligation here, that doesn't make him the bad guy
I never ever made this about the asker. It is possible for both statements to be true.
The asker has no obligation to the child
The child has a right to try to reach out
If the boy calls again, then there is no excuse. I just think there's a million cases where we (as in the mens rights sub and as MRAs) would encourage the child to call. And a million were we wouldn't. Based on the information at hand both are plausible.
the legal rights of everyone involved
I get when you say he has the moral right not to be contacted. Legally he doesn't unless there is some kind of order involved.
You also have to ask why does the kid wait until he's that old to contact?
yes it could entirely be possible that the mother has lied to the son about who his father really is and she's painted him as a monster or something which definitely does happen and maybe that's why he ended up contacting him but we don't know the details of that
That's why I said we make wildly different assumptions. I think this explanation is more likely than others based on the fact that the mother lied and cheated for years and had no remorse whatsoever.
Let's leave it at that, I don't think we'll come to any more agreement than we have right now.
LOL if you check out the post it turns out this was a fake by MTGOW precisely designed to provoke a response from people. Hell that fucking worked and I had no idea whether this was a fake or not because it was written so convincingly.
Cute that this sub calls itself "Men's Rights" but conveniently wants to ignore the suffering of a male child who lost who he thought was his father. The genetics weren't there, but their bond was real... at least until the supposed "adult" in the situation decided otherwise. Imagine if who you thought was your father stopped caring about you altogether just because of a DNA test. It's like saying you were never really loved... you were just a genetic payload.
I'd understand if the kid was super young or something, but he was freaking ten years old.
Again, like others you are dumping everything on the man, no one here is unsympathetic to the child. They're fed up with the way people like you are covering for the actions of the mother when she knowingly cheated on him for years and didn't own up to it.
Funny how you claim to care about the child yet you won't fucking own up to this basic fact, where's the real father in all of this? I suspect that she got dumped by him and was using this father for financial support and to raise the child because she knew the guy she was fucking was useless. You don't want to go into any of that and just talk about how evil the man is.
Why are you covering for this manipulative sociopath by attacking the man?
While the man says he has moved on, I am very much doubtful about that. Think about it. If he really loved this child, he was suddenly deprived of any right to even see him, without a single chance to fight back. That gotta hurt like hell. And the child recontacting him will reopen that wound. In addition to that, seeing that child will be a constant reminder of the vicious deception of the mother. Yes, it is very sad for the child, and it could have been handled better by the man, but I am not really sure he was necessarily able to. I mean, I don't even want to try to imagine the kind of crushing blow this woman inflicted on him. Even real fathers who are victims of parental alienation don't always react properly when they are contacted years later by their kids. Why would you think that someone who isn't even the real father would do better?
As usual reality lies somewhere in the middle. This situation is more complicated than simple "Not his son, not his responsibility" and "Yta for abandoning your child even though you aren't bloodbound". He did raise that kid as his own and they do have a connection. It's exactly because that connection hurts so much that he decided just to close the door so he wouldn't feel the pain at all and no one can or should blame him for it. He only shouldn't have responded the way he did, he should've been kinder - "I'm sorry, I'm not ready to talk about this". There are no assholes here except the mother. Both sides of Reddit are fucking idiots.
If you actually look at post properly you'd realise the child introduced himself as his son even though the mother knew he wasn't the man's real child. I agree he could maybe have handled it better but these are the facts of the matter, he is under no obligation to talk to him.
Just because it makes you feel uncomfortable doesn't mean the guy is a bad person.
[–]mgtowolf 15 points16 points17 points (26 children) | Copy Link
The cheating whore is obviously the asshole if you have two braincells to rub together. Cheated on, lied to, only told about it when he went for custody. Yet he is the asshole. That sub is full of dumb fucks who live to blame everything on men no matter what it seems. I don't know why any man would post shit there, if you have a penis, you are gonna be the asshole lol.
[–]cursed_deity 3 points4 points5 points (22 children) | Copy Link
in all fairness people are calling her an asshole as well, and he didn't ask ''which one of us is the asshole?''
he asked if he was an asshole for dropping the kid he raised that he found it wasn't his
[–]Mackowatosc 2 points3 points4 points (7 children) | Copy Link
If he only wanted to raise his bio child, he is just protecting himself. She is at fault for making that happen.
[–]cursed_deity 1 point2 points3 points (6 children) | Copy Link
doesn't change the part where the not bio kid did see him as a father and looked up to him
he's a human as well, place yourself in his shoes.
what if you had a brother you always looked up to who dropped you like a brick because he found out you where adopted? he would be in his right to do so but you can not agrue that it would sting like a bitch and give trust issues
[–]Mackowatosc 1 point2 points3 points (5 children) | Copy Link
not HIS child, not HIS problem, not HIS liability.
Stop attempting to play on our emotions, and stop victim blaming the man. You dont get to decide for us. Want us to be engaged? Dont take the decision from us. Of course decision is possible to change in the future, without notice.
Just like your decision that you have consented to sex can, apparently, change 30 years down the line nowadays. If men are going to prison based on a female's changing decision after the deed is done, we should have the same right, for EQUALITY.
[–]cursed_deity 1 point2 points3 points (4 children) | Copy Link
jesus christ stop derailing the conversation into men's issues that have nothing to do with this specific topic, this is clearly a personal issue that should be handled as such. it's not a problem, it is a kid that he raised for almost his entire life that looked up to him.
go be an edgelord on mgtow because that's sadly where most of them retreated to.
and empathy is not ''playing on your emotions'' empathy is what makes us human. you should try it sometime.
i feel bad for the kid and i feel bad for the dad as well, hence why i said the situation is a difficult and personal one. neither of them is wrong perse and the kid is most definitely NOT a problem, he's a kid like you and me used to be (or like you still are i would guess)
[–]Mackowatosc 1 point2 points3 points (3 children) | Copy Link
yeah, what about you having any empathy to the real victim, the father that was not really a father, it turns out?
Oh, right. Mommy and HER baby must get what they want, and fuck the daddy/ATM/tool, right?
and IM the one lacking empathy here, you say?
its not "difficult" or "personal". Mom fucked up, she must pay. Man was a victim and he must be relived of ANY and ALL obligations resulting from her decisions and actions. He is not your sacrificial goat.
[–]cursed_deity 0 points1 point2 points (2 children) | Copy Link
mom must pay by dropping the kid.. you seem to be obsessed with the mom in this situation when it's between her kid and the man who raised him lol
but okay you win, fuck the wife by punishing the kid who had nothing to do with it. stop replying now
[–]Mackowatosc 1 point2 points3 points (1 child) | Copy Link
Its her workings that started the problem. Are they not? She is to get away freely? Well aint that cute...
but ok, you win. Lets just fuck the guy over, he's just an acceptable collateral damage to you after all.
[–]cursed_deity 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
thanks for twisting my words, and again, how is the wife being punished by dropping the kid again?
please stop replying this is my last message i can't get through to people like you which makes me believe that i am dealing with a teenager
[–]Godudop 3 points4 points5 points (3 children) | Copy Link
Those dumb idiots dont know what paternity fraud is. Yes the kid is innocent but so is he he now has to deal with a child that is a Produkt of Cheating
[–]WRZESZCZ_1998 0 points1 point2 points (2 children) | Copy Link
That kid didn't do anything, don't look down on him. He reached out to the man who raised him.
[–]Godudop 1 point2 points3 points (1 child) | Copy Link
I feel bad for the kid but he still has a biological father. I am not blaming the kid but the man needs a NEW start
[–]WRZESZCZ_1998 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Yeah. Who he never met and who means nothing at all. On the other hand there is a man who raised that boy for 10 years. Wonder who he has more connection with...
[–]mgtowolf 2 points3 points4 points (9 children) | Copy Link
And he is not an asshole for that either IMO. If the sub wasn't all reeeee men are the debil, it would be overwhelming NAH response.
[–]cursed_deity 1 point2 points3 points (8 children) | Copy Link
i think it's a difficult situation, he could have handled it better, but at the same time he is 100% in his right to choose the better option for him.
i wouldn't call him an asshole but he did break a kid's heart that looked up to him
[–]Mackowatosc 1 point2 points3 points (5 children) | Copy Link
Not his kid, not his obligation, not his problem. Mom can go handle shit situation she created, on her own.
[–]cursed_deity 0 points1 point2 points (4 children) | Copy Link
is that how you see kids? as a problem?
what if someone treated you like that your entire childhood?
you're not as cool as you think you are, shit like this makes you look weak in my opinion
[–]Mackowatosc 2 points3 points4 points (3 children) | Copy Link
If you want to force someone to raise and provide for a child that is not his, YES, that is a problem to me.
[–]cursed_deity 0 points1 point2 points (2 children) | Copy Link
so you're saying the kid is just a problem, nothing else?
[–]Mackowatosc 2 points3 points4 points (1 child) | Copy Link
Moms actions and lies are a problem. Kid is her responsibility, and a collateral damage - but the responsibility is not that guys to carry. He didnt sign up to her LIES, he didnt CONSENT to this situation being forced on him. He must be able to leave it behind, without penalties of any kind.
[–]cursed_deity 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
ok
[+]menstruatrix1 points [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link
No. This is like telling a rape victim who can't stand to be touched that it's their fault that their kids are upset that they don't get hugs anymore.
[–]cursed_deity 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
okaybuddyretard
[–]JaxJags904 0 points1 point2 points (2 children) | Copy Link
This guy doesn’t need to raise the kid that isn’t his, but to hang up on him, a kid that you raised for 10 years, because he wanted to talk? Yeah. That’s an asshole move.
The mom is a bigger asshole, but it’s not the kids fault. At least talk to him.
[–]mgtowolf 1 point2 points3 points (1 child) | Copy Link
So "man up" and do something harmful to him for the sake of someone else who is not even his responsibility?
The wife was a cheating whore, the wife sprang it on him he was not the father as a custody dispute killer and a parting spit in the face in a divorce. I have been cheated on, that was bad enough, this on top of it, I could only imagine how much more salt to the wound something like that would be. Yeah, it sucks for the kid, but it's 100% the cheater's doing, and he has got to take care of himself and his own wellbeing first.
[–]JaxJags904 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Did I say man up? No, the guy is allowed to have issues. But this isn’t the kids fault. Nobody is saying he needs to be in the kids life doing all kinds for things for him, but to HANG UP on him? He’s an asshole for that.
[–]Lethn 5 points6 points7 points (21 children) | Copy Link
Nope, it's not the kid's fault that his mother is literally a cheating slut but at the same time that doesn't give him the right to go and contact him. I think it's kind of harsh if he was raising him until he was 10 and he just cuts off contact like that but again. This is entirely the mother's fault, she is the one who put them both in that awkward situation.
It pisses me off so much the way every single time in this situation people try and dump responsibility on the man. No, it isn't his responsibility, the mother in this situation is being an absolute bitch and you have these scumbags online who are trying to cover for what she did by attacking the man.
I think he could have handled himself better but he is not to blame for the mother's actions and neither is the teenager. It's also not the best plan of the teenager to just contact an estranged non-father right out of the blue like that when he knows he has nothing to do with the family.
[–]bassofkramer 9 points10 points11 points (0 children) | Copy Link
no more information necessary. Full stop.
[–]WRZESZCZ_1998 0 points1 point2 points (10 children) | Copy Link
... you now need a right to talk to someone?
[–]Lethn 0 points1 point2 points (9 children) | Copy Link
Are you another emotionally manipulative sociopath who needs to end up on my block list?
[–]WRZESZCZ_1998 1 point2 points3 points (8 children) | Copy Link
Do you think that one needs a special right to dare talk to you?
[–]Lethn 0 points1 point2 points (7 children) | Copy Link
Yes, because I don't patience for obvious sociopaths from IncelTears that come and pick a fight with me because they make the worst assumptions about people with zero context. You're fucking obvious, so don't even bother trying to start something, maybe readjust your attitude before you talk to people and you'll get better responses.
You seem to have a history of pulling this in the MRA sub as well and yes I have noticed.
[–]WRZESZCZ_1998 0 points1 point2 points (6 children) | Copy Link
Noticed what? Also you talk about clicking on my username as if you conducted some difficult investigation.
[–]Lethn 0 points1 point2 points (5 children) | Copy Link
Don't play dumb, you like to pick fights with people on this sub.
[–]WRZESZCZ_1998 0 points1 point2 points (4 children) | Copy Link
You didn't like my impression of you?
I'll pick fights on any sub I want.
[–]Lethn 1 point2 points3 points (3 children) | Copy Link
It's a false impression you've made up in your head and now you're going to try and project that onto me. Honestly yes, to go back to your point. You don't have any 'right' to contact anyone the same way I don't have the right to go around pestering people in PMs and so on and so forth.
Amazing actually how many people can't seem to grasp this, you cannot as an individual force your way into somebodies' life. Posting on subs is another thing but don't be surprised if people see what you're doing and just downvote you and ignore you.
[–]WRZESZCZ_1998 0 points1 point2 points (2 children) | Copy Link
Well you did ask me to stop playing dumb, so my impression of you was believable.
Yeah. That's why all pm are locked, yeah.
You don't need some specific permission to contact someone though.
[–]coke501 0 points1 point2 points (8 children) | Copy Link
Strange. We would have told the son that he did nothing wrong by trying to contact the man he considered his father for more than half of his life.
Hell, we don't even know what exactly the boy knew. Does he even know he is not his biological father? If he does, does he know, why he left? If he does, how was his life with one of his most important male role models gone?
Yeah, it's the mothers fault, the father has no obligation whatsoever to the boy and has chosen to make his decision clear. But I have a feeling this whole thread is so focused on putting shame on the mother that the boy gets thrown under the bus completely.
Just to be clear: This is not about putting obligation on the asker, or absolving the mother. This is about not condemnig the fucking child that didn't ask to left behind.
[–]Lethn 0 points1 point2 points (7 children) | Copy Link
No one is condemning the child, that is a narrative being spun by people here who want to smear MRAs, that's an actual lie.
[–]coke501 0 points1 point2 points (6 children) | Copy Link
I mean, that's very much condemnig him. He shouldn't even try to reach out, because his feelings don't matter. The actions of a cheating, lying, (seemingly) heartless woman have tainted the boy by association.
Again, don't get me wrong, the asker has every right to not want contact. Hell, he can deny the very existence of the child. But I don't think trying to contact the man he knew as his father for half his life (or longer) is something that the boy needs a 'right' to do.
[–]Lethn 1 point2 points3 points (5 children) | Copy Link
Why are you pinning everything on this random guy the mother suckered into a relationship an you are not holding the real father accountable? Again, you are lying that is not what people are doing in the slightest and no the son does not have any right to contact him that is not the same as condemning him.
You are doing everything in this situation to pin the blame on the guy rather than accept he has nothing to do with this situation.
[–]coke501 0 points1 point2 points (4 children) | Copy Link
Just courious. Where exactly did I imply any obligation on the guy?
I am not considering the real father because I don't have any information on him. All i know is that the asker was the only father the child knew for at least half of the boys life and that his mother is a cheating, lying whore. We don't even know if the real father knows about the boy.
What makes you think the son knew that the asker doesn't want to be contacted? How many posts right here are about fathers that wished their children would contact them, but they won't because their mothers lied about them? Would we say to a boy that asked right here, if he should reach out to his father, that he hasn't seen in 7 Years. We'd sure as hell won't tell him that he should suck it and that he has no right to reach out.
Also: How can I be lying when I cite what you wrote (confirmed and acknowledged as your opinion on that matter) and thinking that this is unnecesarrily cruel to say about the boy?
[EDIT]wrong tense[/EDIT]
[EDIT2]corrected an instance of "father" to "asker"[/EDIT]
[–]Lethn 1 point2 points3 points (3 children) | Copy Link
I bolded the parts for you since you can't seem to read your own posts.
That's exactly right, we don't know who the real father is, so don't you think that the boy should be more concerned finding out who he is rather than potentially stalking a random man that his mother suckered into a relationship in order to take care of the kid?
This is why I'm arguing with you and calling you a liar because by your own admission, again, you're not even considering the real father as an entity. So what if you don't have any information on him? She cheated with him, that means he actually existed at some point within this ridiculous situation and she probably won't say anything about it.
The guy in this situation is not the father, he was lied to and so was the kid, he is under no obligation to stay in contact with the child however harsh you might think it is. It's pissing me off because there are always, always people like you that seek to dump responsibility on the man in this situation even when he is actually the victim in this case.
[–]coke501 1 point2 points3 points (2 children) | Copy Link
That doesn't pin any obligation on the asker. It just absolves the teen from wrongdoing.
But I also think we are taking wildly different approaches here. And we use wildly different assumptions in our argumentation. You obviously assume that the child knows that he contacted a person that is not his father. I'm sympathetic to what you said in this case, although I'd argue that I still understand the wish of the child to reestablish contact, and I would still not deny him the right to try at least once.
As far as I can tell, you also assume that the real father knows anything. Again that just would add another asshole to the scenario (while making neither the boy nor the asker one). But we both know that isn't necessarily true. The guy may have not even known that his one-night-stand was cheating with him. Yes, that's some assumptions on my side as well, but they are just as plausible as yours, considering our starting-line.
I don't think about the father as a non-entity, i consider him an unknown. I can, for the sake of argument, make different assumptions about him than I did until now, and my answers would be very different, but I do not like to assume more than necessary, and when I assume I'd like to base it on the things i do know for sure (as in: the mother is a habitual liar)
That's the funny thing. This is the part i can 100% agree with. Nothing harsh about it, just cold hard facts.
[–]Lethn 1 point2 points3 points (1 child) | Copy Link
It is not his right to contact the guy, this is my problem with you and other users on this sub. At the same time you claim to agree with me that the man who is not the father is under no obligation to talk to this child then you contradict yourself by lobbying on the child's behalf very aggressively as if he should have the right to.
I'll throw you a bone here though and say that yes it could entirely be possible that the mother has lied to the son about who his father really is and she's painted him as a monster or something which definitely does happen and maybe that's why he ended up contacting him but we don't know the details of that.
Going from this line it's entirely possible his mother lied to him.
It seems to me you're way too invested in this, you are confusing what you think is best for the child generally versus the legal rights of everyone involved and that is what I'm interested in. I'm not unsympathetic to the kid because it's entirely possible on top of the cheating his mother is going to try and lie about the situation and rationalise her actions by claiming he's the real father and a scumbag who left her but again we don't know any of that for sure aside from this guy's version of events and one line.
At the end of the day I stress, he is under no obligation here, that doesn't make him the bad guy and I think you're being incredibly unfair to him especially when you admit yourself you don't know the details of what's going on. You also have to ask why does the kid wait until he's that old to contact?
[–]coke501 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
I never ever made this about the asker. It is possible for both statements to be true.
If the boy calls again, then there is no excuse. I just think there's a million cases where we (as in the mens rights sub and as MRAs) would encourage the child to call. And a million were we wouldn't. Based on the information at hand both are plausible.
I get when you say he has the moral right not to be contacted. Legally he doesn't unless there is some kind of order involved.
That's why I said we make wildly different assumptions. I think this explanation is more likely than others based on the fact that the mother lied and cheated for years and had no remorse whatsoever.
Let's leave it at that, I don't think we'll come to any more agreement than we have right now.
[–]Lethn 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
LOL if you check out the post it turns out this was a fake by MTGOW precisely designed to provoke a response from people. Hell that fucking worked and I had no idea whether this was a fake or not because it was written so convincingly.
[+]ThrowRAe1 points [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link
OP HERE THIS WAS AN EXPERIMENT AND I GOT THE RESULTS I WAS EXPECTING FROM THAT TOXIC SUB.
[–]z770i1 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
So they are biased?
[–]sootlord 4 points5 points6 points (0 children) | Copy Link
AITA is cucked
[–]graywisteria 3 points4 points5 points (4 children) | Copy Link
Cute that this sub calls itself "Men's Rights" but conveniently wants to ignore the suffering of a male child who lost who he thought was his father. The genetics weren't there, but their bond was real... at least until the supposed "adult" in the situation decided otherwise. Imagine if who you thought was your father stopped caring about you altogether just because of a DNA test. It's like saying you were never really loved... you were just a genetic payload.
I'd understand if the kid was super young or something, but he was freaking ten years old.
[–]Lethn 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Again, like others you are dumping everything on the man, no one here is unsympathetic to the child. They're fed up with the way people like you are covering for the actions of the mother when she knowingly cheated on him for years and didn't own up to it.
Funny how you claim to care about the child yet you won't fucking own up to this basic fact, where's the real father in all of this? I suspect that she got dumped by him and was using this father for financial support and to raise the child because she knew the guy she was fucking was useless. You don't want to go into any of that and just talk about how evil the man is.
Why are you covering for this manipulative sociopath by attacking the man?
[–]AskingToFeminists 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
While the man says he has moved on, I am very much doubtful about that. Think about it. If he really loved this child, he was suddenly deprived of any right to even see him, without a single chance to fight back. That gotta hurt like hell. And the child recontacting him will reopen that wound. In addition to that, seeing that child will be a constant reminder of the vicious deception of the mother. Yes, it is very sad for the child, and it could have been handled better by the man, but I am not really sure he was necessarily able to. I mean, I don't even want to try to imagine the kind of crushing blow this woman inflicted on him. Even real fathers who are victims of parental alienation don't always react properly when they are contacted years later by their kids. Why would you think that someone who isn't even the real father would do better?
[–]Mackowatosc 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Nope. The kid never knew his father, mommy precluded that from happening. Her actions, her responsibility. And you are just victim blaming the man.
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Not his kid, not his problem.
[+]Eploar1 points [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link
As usual reality lies somewhere in the middle. This situation is more complicated than simple "Not his son, not his responsibility" and "Yta for abandoning your child even though you aren't bloodbound". He did raise that kid as his own and they do have a connection. It's exactly because that connection hurts so much that he decided just to close the door so he wouldn't feel the pain at all and no one can or should blame him for it. He only shouldn't have responded the way he did, he should've been kinder - "I'm sorry, I'm not ready to talk about this". There are no assholes here except the mother. Both sides of Reddit are fucking idiots.
[–]Lethn 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
If you actually look at post properly you'd realise the child introduced himself as his son even though the mother knew he wasn't the man's real child. I agree he could maybe have handled it better but these are the facts of the matter, he is under no obligation to talk to him.
Just because it makes you feel uncomfortable doesn't mean the guy is a bad person.