How do you respond to "men can't experience sexism"? [Crossposted from MensLib - Please comment here, not there]

So in discussions about men's issues, I occasionally come across the argument "men can't experience sexism" or "misandry isn't real". I get the theoretical defense of those positions: that the sociological definitions of both rely on the "power + prejudice" model. But I've never felt that a strict adherence to the sociological definitions really serves anyone. It seems to me that non-systemic sexism is still sexism; non-systemic misandry is still misandry. At times I'm not convinced it's all non-systemic anyway, but we can leave that for a different discussion.

We talk a lot here about negative perceptions of men, the fact that society cares less about us on account of our gender, the fact that men are perceived as less deserving of empathy or compassion. Personally I've run into this mostly in the context of parenting; I've been treated like the backbencher parent (my own mother routinely refers to it as "babysitting" when I'm home with the kids and my wife is at work), other parents have had that doubtful look on their faces when dropping off their own children for playdates with mine and my wife wasn't around, and to some degree I've internalized some of this and caught myself doubting my competence in handling certain situations.

I understand the relationship between what I've just described and misogyny. That those caregiving roles have been relegated to women, been undervalued, that they've been perceived as "unmanly" or "beneath a man's dignity", and that they're borne out of a view of women as the default caregiver. But it seems to me that the resulting view of men as inept parents at some point grew up, moved out, got a job, and became independent, and now needs to be engaged on its own terms. Those negative perceptions may always be the children of misogyny, but they're no longer dependent on it. And I think we could say that about many of the current negative perceptions of men. Of course, this doesn't negate the realities of misogyny or toxic masculinity - the discussion around those things is important and needs to continue, and we can do that while tackling the ways society perceives men negatively directly as its own phenomenon.

But there are those who respond to this, still, with "men can't experience sexism" and "misandry isn't real". The tricky part about this is that the people saying that are nearly always feminists. So it feels like we're left with a choice: concede the point, or push back.

If we concede the point, and refuse to call these things sexism (I know "misandry" is a much more loaded term and some are hesitant to use it), it feels like it robs us of language we actually need to have the discussion around our own issues. If we can't conceptualize the negative perceptions of us as men as anything more than a by-product of misogyny, it stunts the conversation and restrains us from engaging those negative perceptions directly and in their own context.

But if we push back, do we jeapordize our allyship with feminism? Do we fear that naming the problem as sexism or misandry will put us in conflict with a movement we're committed to working hand in hand with? "Men can't experience sexism" is not a central tenet of feminism (at least as I understand it), and I think it's actually a small minority of feminists who take that stance, and smaller still the number that consider it a hill worth dying on. Try naming these perceptions "misandry", though, and you'll get a lot more disagreement.

How do you respond when you run into this? Do you agree with either of those two statements? Do you ever feel that avoiding the use of those words to describe what we experience limits the conversation, or do you think the conversation about men's issues is unhindered by avoiding that language? If you disagree with those statements, do you ever feel hesitant to voice that disagreement? Or are you comfortable pushing back against them?