Why are so many men/women rights activists so discriminating against each other?

Lethn · 2019-07-21T03:13:46+00:00

It's incredibly easy to lecture MRAs from a position of safety, I bet you haven't taken this up with feminists at all have you?

DominusSphinx · 2019-07-21T03:21:15+00:00

Its not MRAs who pull fire alarms at talks about women commiting suicide, ive seen plenty mens rights activists who agree with fighting for both, yet its feminists whove been very clear about only wanting women to get rights, funny how you didnt post this on a feminist page, theyve been fighting for women only for far longer and have had a lot more success, yet youre only lecturing the group thats trying to get their rights included after theyve been left out for decades,

EricAllonde · 2019-07-21T05:45:01+00:00

Your post on the feminism sub was removed, the entirely predictable, completely expected result.

Next time you're in the mood for some bothsides-ism, remember:

Which side is doing all the censoring, silence & no-platforming? And which side is firmly, consistently supporting free speech for all - even the people who hate them and want to silence them?
Which side is protesting, sometimes violently, every live event by those they disagree with and using all their institutional & political power to shut down, expel, ban or eliminate the people they disagree with? And which side is doing none of those things?

Spend a few minutes to consider what that massive difference in approach tells you about the merits of the two sides and their arguments.

Ody_ssey · 2019-07-21T05:38:01+00:00

Acknowledge that both genders face discrimination

That discrimination isn't equal. With one false accusation, your employer, law enforcement and court are ready to drag you to prison and ruin your life and career. Law heavily side with female rights and subsidize men for that. I have seen here countless examples of family court and Title IX anti-male decisions even when the victim was a male.

I have seen so many cases where men rights activists refuse to work with a female

Not just MRAs, male employees are actually avoiding to work with a female. You know why.

I never seen in this sub that users here ever put a post hating women. Most of the time they post links to the articles and point out double standards and anti-male views.

Men's Rights don't launch movements on twitter to defame women on twitter with #metoo. It's the feminist who openly advertise to #killallmen this new year, #abolishmen etc.

iainmf · 2019-07-21T09:30:05+00:00

I specialise in men's rights issues and spend most of my time on men's rights issues, therefore it makes sense to call me a men's rights activist. If you called me a gender rights activist people would expect me to be more knowledgeable on women's and non-binary/trans rights issues than I am.

Philip8000 · 2019-07-21T13:22:00+00:00

Huh, they removed your post almost immediately; what a surprise.

In a perfect world, MRAs and FRAs could work together but that's not the kind of world we live in. On the contrary, they do everything possible to silence those who speak about male problems. It's been made clear for decades they're not interested, aside from sometimes saying: "Patriarchy hurts men too".

And they're the ones with institutional power. There are billions of dollars every year spent on violence against women, for example. When Erin Pizzey attempted to support male victims, she was forced to have a police escort everywhere she went, with her mail being forwarded to the bomb squad.

Just one of many examples.

RandomThrowaway410 · 2019-07-21T14:05:28+00:00

FYI: Your post in /r/feminism was immediately removed. This should give you an indication of most Feminists' hostility towards perspectives outside of their own.

Lethn · 2019-07-21T03:33:57+00:00

u/erwinsoh, you're shouting into the wind. Pleas for peace only work with people who want it, and on nearly all sides I'm sorry to say we're well past that now.

Lethn · 2019-07-21T14:16:21+00:00

As expected the OP just comes across as a major feminist apologist and rather actually confronting feminists at all and reporting back to us they have fucked off. Hopefully I'll be surprised, but I've seen way too much of this that the pattern is all too predictable.

The OP isn't here to broker a peace between two sides, they're here to lay blame at both sides in an effort to salvage feminisms' utterly broken reputation. I've noticed this seems to be a tactic a lot of the apologists and concern trolls use where they try to go "Oh both sides are just as bad" and then point fingers at MRAs and anyone who dares criticise feminism and refuse to address anything feminists do.

Note as well how it's always vague, the accusations especially towards MRAs are often baseless and they provide no examples and they barely even mention any of the shit that feminists do on a regular basis. If there is anything this sub needs to do and be careful of is make sure people know exactly who these concern trolls and apologists are that keep excusing the bad behaviour of the majority of feminists within their movement.

This is how you know when somebody is bad faith, when they absolutely refuse to address the smear campaigns by feminists, the media attacks the outright libel often written on this sub by feminists and just downplay it as a 'small minority' then you know they're just here to try and do a PR exercise rather than have an kind of honest conversation.

nforne · 2019-07-21T15:54:18+00:00

Of course it would be lovely if we could all play nicely together to bring equality for all. But first you need to understand a little about the feminism machine.

Unlike the MRM, feminism generates a massive amount of funding to its charitable organisations that work to help women and girls. In the case of domestic abuse for example, it is very useful for them to paint it as a binary issue with female victims and male abusers because it (a) maximises income by exploiting gynocentrism, focusing the public on the easily marketable idea of female victims and male villains; and (b) ensures that the money is controlled by feminists.

This should give some clue as to why they're so hostile to the idea of men's rights. They're protecting their cash cow.

Look up Erin Pizzey for more information on this. She founded the world's first women's refuge and quickly realised that the women she was helping were often just as violent as their partners, but feminists took over and took control of the narrative.

lostapwbm · 2019-07-21T17:05:02+00:00

In my opinion, there should not be female/male rights activists, but instead be gender rights activist.

LOL No.

Only when you can truly see both male and female discimination and social problems as equally problematic issues can you call yourself a true gender rights activist.

Uh huh.

Stop acting like it is a contest.

No u.

There should not be a men/women are more discriminated so we should shut the other down.

Cool story. Try this on the feminists and see how it goes.

I have seen so many cases where men rights activists refuse to work with a female or female rights activist refusing to talk to a male.

Shorter version: "My perspective should be your reality."

Actually, we shouldn't even call it the men's rights movement or the female's rights movement. Instead, it should be renamed to be gender social issues movement.

Is this the United Front? Because it looks like the United Front.

Link

Your post seems to have been removed, sir/madam with no replies. But how could that be? Feminists are so reasonable and loving and non-censorious.

Th3alchemist_0 · 2019-07-21T23:28:02+00:00

With regards to Cassie's examples of how she would twist men's right issues to either be about wemon, or mysogynistic, I can understand why. In society we have limited resources (time to address an issue an implement legal/social change, money to fund programs to address these issues, etc.) So if we aren't spending those resources on women rights, we might forget about them or sweep them under the rug.

There needs to be a more wholistic approach in which these issue, both men and women, are addressed simultaneously.

-manatease · 2019-07-23T15:40:53+00:00

The feminist from the TEDx talk no longer identifies as a feminist after her experiences making her latest documentary. There are other feminists who are essentially "othered" when criticising the orthodoxy of fundamentalist feminism too.

The problem with this brand, the type that emanates from Women's (aka Gender) Studies departments, is that it foundationally believes that men are the oppressor class. Engaging with belief systems directly as 'unbelievers' (probably 'devils' would be more accurate) isn't a credible tactic, instead I really do think more reasonable feminists who don't believe in a timeless conspiracy theory of oppression should find courage to speak out against the nutbaggery of the elite to preserve their movement. Not easy of course and some of these people unironically like to pull the equivalent of telling their boyfriends "somebody looked at them wrong" to ruin apostates lives, by phoning employers and whatnot.

genkernels · 2019-07-21T04:23:40+00:00

Hi! Erm, I'm actually glad you brought this up. You see, I am someone who has been on both sides. I started out as a more anti-feminist individual, automatically doubting anything any "feminist" had to say, and after going through some shit and yes, experiencing discrimination based on my gender, I became a little more open to the other sides view point. For a while there, I suppose I could have been that crazy "libtard feminist" who was angry at the world and it's systems that hurt people. But I mellowed out, and so now I am adept at looking at both sides and seeing where they are coming from.

So, why do the sides like to fling kindergarten insults and hatred at each other? Well, I suppose in a way, it is a form of tribalism. If you claim that women are oppressed, then automatically those who claim that in fact, it is men are oppressed, are automatically the enemy, and there is no reasoning with that lot. This is just an unfortunate result of how our ancestors thought in order to survive now mudding the waters in the modern world, and to be honest there's not much to be done with that.

I also believe that if there is another side who thinks differently than you, then perhaps you might be challenged to think about why they think that way, and if you think about why they think that way, you might realize that it is you who is incorrect. This is seen in both sides, as there are feminists who have become men's rights activists and vice versa.

So now I suppose we need to think about which side is correct, or if perhaps the truth is not found in either side but on a middle ground of some sort. This is where I agree with you, OP. I personally would love to see both sides work together, I feel that it would do good. The world is shit and as a result we experience different shit based on who we are as people. Men have to deal with constant invalidation in their emotions, are taught that they are be disposable, are sent off to fight in foreign countries so we can be free, and so much more. On the other hand, I personally as a female have experienced sexual violance, physical abuse, discouragement from people who think I shouldn't be working at a "man's job" (I currently work at a scrapyard), being told I'm too emotional to think logically about anything, and having my own father tell me that it's best if I just get married and stay at home. I've met a lot of other women who go through similar situations. Granted, I probably understand my side a little better, cuz ya know, I'm not a man, but that's why I'm here. To learn.

I hope that maybe one day both sides can work together, as there may be a singular source causing the grief that both sides express. We really should be listening to each other and start learning from each other.

Any who, I should probably stop typing before this mammoth sized wall of text gets any bigger. Thanks for bringing this up, OP. Sorry I ramble.

Title	Why are so many men/women rights activists so discriminating against each other?
Author	erwinsoh
Upvotes	21
Comments	47
Date	July 21, 2019 3:10 AM UTC (6 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/cfui7k/why_are_so_many_menwomen_rights_activists_so/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/why-are-so-many-menwomen-rights-activists-so.873045 https://theredarchive.com/post/873045

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