I need help understanding something.

goodmod · 2018-10-03T02:55:00+00:00

You have been shadowbanned by reddit admins (not by mensrights moderators). See /r/ShadowBan for information about shadowbans.

I have approved this comment so I can reply to you.

It seems reddit has a bot that looks for certain types of user behaviour that indicate spamming or brigading. Sometimes innocent users get shadowbanned along with the bad guys. Usually they can fix this if they contact the admins.

valenin · 2018-10-03T03:11:22+00:00

I'm sorry you had to go through what you did.

Many of us aren't arguing that women always lie about rape accusations or that the accused are always innocent. It's more accurate to say that we reject (or at least caution against) the current trend to believe accusations as unimpeachable.

Some accusations are made by legit victims. Some of those victims accurately call out their accusers. But some accusations are false, and some victims call out people who aren't actually their attackers.

The problem we wish was more visible is that in a lot of cases, and especially when a case is highly publicized, people automatically assume every case is one of the 'actual victim accurately calling out abuser' cases when it demonstrably isn't. In the cases where it isn't true, the accused often faces professional and personal ruin, sometimes actual imprisonment and legal consequences. In cases where the accuser is absolutely lying, there are usually no consequences for doing so.

In effect, this creates an environment where bad actors can destroy the life of someone they don't like, and the recipient has no defense and no recourse. It undermines the legal system, and to some degree the idea of a civil society.

auMatech · 2018-10-03T07:10:13+00:00

To me its not as much about having to believe either side right off the bat, but more about listening to BOTH sides equally, then taking all given evidence and weighing it EQUALLY before the law to determine culpability.

This goes in stark contrast to the current court of public opinion where men tend to be innocent until accused, and then guilty until proven innocent.

SockCuck · 2018-10-03T10:30:20+00:00

For me it's simple

There are many documented instances of false rape allegations
Therefore, women can lie about being raped and have on numerous occasions, for various reasons, also documented
Since it is entirely possible that an allegation is untrue, it does not make logical sense to automatically believe it
Since the punishment involves literally being locked in a cage and possibly subjected to sexual abuse/rape and violence in prison, it is good to make sure that the allegation is true before punishing the person like this and basically taking their life/future/freedom away
Making it possible to throw men in prison on an allegation alone would lead to abuse: ex wife angry at you? Accuse them of rape. Boyfriend cheated? Accuse them of rape. This would be abused, and many men would be victimised.
Therefore, a presumption of innocence must be applied, in the name of justice.

tenchineuro · 2018-10-03T03:35:52+00:00

Shadowbanned and account deleted.

DubsPackage · 2018-10-03T13:27:26+00:00

The opposite of "believe all victims" isn't "believe no victims."

Obviously some people /are/ victims, some people were convinced by somebody else to consider themselves a "victim" and some people flat out lie for a multitude of reasons.

Such as "regret = rape."

Like if you sleep with someone and later regret it, and then your hardcore feminist friend tells you, "you're totally a victim, you should go to the police."

In that case you're being TOLD that you're a victim, you're being fed a certain narrative.

But the guy didn't do anything wrong, he didn't force you, he slept with a willing person.

I feel like feminism wants to expand the definition of "rape" to include so many ridiculous scenarios, for malicious reasons, some of them have bad interpersonal experiences with men and hate them.

But in the end we're all Americans, we're all fellow human beings, we have to try to be fair with each other.

We can't just throw any man or woman's life away.

And yes, victims should be helped and supported, evidence should be collected, investigations should be done. and some abusers need to be punshed as-necessary.

It's not that complicated.

DavidByron2 · 2018-10-03T17:44:33+00:00

my brain just tells me I have to believe woman

So were you home schooled then?

Title	I need help understanding something.
Author	randomcatlover27
Upvotes	6
Comments	9
Date	October 3, 2018 2:45 AM UTC (7 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/9kx9w6/i_need_help_understanding_something/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/i-need-help-understanding-something.892800 https://theredarchive.com/post/892800

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