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This article is so intellectually dishonest and disingenuous- this sort of thing is why people have a negative perception of the men's rights movement. They actually believe this.

BlueOrange22

June 2, 2018
11 upvotes
/r/MensRights
https://www.bustle.com/p/is-fran-dodd-based-on-a-real-person-the-unbreakable-kimmy-schmidt-mens-rights-activist-represents-ideology-that-deserves-to-be-ridiculed-9228666
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Post Information
Title This article is so intellectually dishonest and disingenuous- this sort of thing is why people have a negative perception of the men's rights movement. They actually believe this.
Author

BlueOrange22

Upvotes 11
Comments 24
Date June 2, 2018 11:13 AM UTC
(8 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/8nzw26/this_article_is_so_intellectually_dishonest_and/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/this-article-is-so-intellectually-dishonest-and.900245
https://theredarchive.com/post/900245
Top posts by BlueOrange22

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Sarah Jeong is lying, her "cruel to old white men" wasn't a response to anything, she said it first.

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After the 2010 earthquake in Haiti, men were denied food as per U.N policy.

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When you hear a man say "my wife won't let me do that" or "I'm not allowed", that would be considered controlling/abusive if reversed.

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Reminder- the Men's Rights Movement is NOT part of the alt-right, or connected to today's rally. We are not political in any sphere other than men's issues.

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Study shows that people who identify as feminists are more likely to sacrifice men.

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Comments

[–]tenchineuro 8 points9 points10 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

There's no evidence that he's based on any one man in particular, but he does appear to be representative of some of the most toxic men in the world.

If he existed in real life, Fran Dodd would likely belong to a informal community referred to as "The Manosphere". That term describes spaces — mostly online — that are dedicated to "male issues," often attempting to argue that men's problems in the modern era are a result of the rise of feminism. The communities within the Manosphere range from Reddit's infamous and misogynist "Red Pill" community to the Incel community to the Men Going Their Own Way Movement, a group so interested in "self-ownership" that they refuse to enter any type of relationship with a woman. While Fran Dodd doesn't specifically name-drop any of these groups, it's easy to believe that he's spent several hours on some of the darkest corners of the internet, taking in and repeating the misogynist language that brings him comfort.

The linked articles are mostly from the NYtimes and one from Vice, no doubt hit pieces all.

The intentions of the Manosphere are often associated with the "alt-right," as both groups seem to have the ultimate goal of keeping patriarchal institutions in tact.

The intentions of the manosphere are often incorrectly associated with the alt-right, for no reason at all.

[–]Alphonetic 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Well, I wouldn’t say no reason. In trying to silence a group, to associate them with another already infamous and hated group is desirable, regardless of how potentially beneficial the former might be. When being as politically driven as they are, you sort of put all of your enemies in one group, no matter how different they actually may be.

[–]thrway_1000 6 points7 points8 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Bustle, for when Vice isn't shitty enough.

Archive -- https://archive.is/bIKvn

[–]William__F0ster 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Lol!

[–]William__F0ster 3 points4 points5 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

If you've never heard of Male Right's Activists (lucky you), then Fran Dodd may seem like an absurd caricature.

Male Right's Activists? Since when?

What are these idiots doing walking round in public calling themselves journalists? Or does journalist have a completely different meaning for millennial to the one it had for me when I was a kid?

Oh, and also - the original article has a link over Male Right's Activists in that sentence which links to this:

Satirical Meninist Video "Men Can Do Better" Illustrates How Silly Meninists Sound When Lamenting the State of Male "Opression"

That article in turn includes this sentence:

The idea that men are somehow oppressed as a gender is pretty laughable. It is true that under patriarchy, men do face certain problems, but they are all traceable back to a system whose main purpose is to oppress women. For instance, men's rights activists frequently point out that fathers are disadvantaged when seeking to get custody of their children, which is true — because our patriarchal system believes that caring for children is a woman's job. In some instances that belief can harm individual men, but as a whole, it is meant to oppress women — and still does in any number of ways.

And in that sentence men's rights activists links to this:

WHAT THE CRAP?!: Men’s Rights Activists Intent on Proving They Are the Absolute Worst

As you can imagine with a title as fair and well-balanced as that one, the article starts like this (my emphasis)

Not content to stew in their own soup of misogynistic feminist-hating rage, men’s rights activists (MRAs) are trying to expand their ranks and draw unsuspecting people to their cause. And in order to get more attention for their woman-hating agenda, they are willing to game, manipulate, and infiltrate social justice movements.

For those not in the know, MRAs are the bottom-feeders of an online community that is already so virulently sexist that any woman who dares speak out in favor of feminism, equality, or social justice is immediately targeted for attacks, including rape threats on social media and offline terrorist threats of mass murder.

There - do you see?

All you soupy misoynists with your bottom-feeding Twitter of mass destruction - you're infiltrating social justice movements.

They're on to you.

You can't beat these guys - they truly are the sharpest tools in the woodshed. / S

Fuck's sake ...

[–]disayle32 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The show used this character to spend half an episode ridiculing the MRM. I can't wait for the episode where an insane feminist makes the entire women's rights movement look like a complete and utter laughingstock!

[–]Razorbladekandyfan 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Absolute trash.

[–]msleeduon 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link

What is factually wrong about it?

[–]DevoutSubculture 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

Search "Fran Dodd", limit results to /r/MensRights, 0 Results. This seems to quite literally be a made-up character intended to be a strawman.

[–]msleeduon 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

...in that it is quite literally a fictional character on a TV show?

[–]DevoutSubculture 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

I didn't get that at first, but if you did why the fuck would you ask what is "factually wrong" with constructing a fictional strawman for the purpose of showing a fictional feminist victories over an enemy ideology? It's an inherently disgusting, dishonest tactic.

[–]msleeduon -3 points-2 points-1 points 8 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

Mostly the article is discussing a satire of MRAs. Neither satire nor meta-commentary on that satire are intrinsically dishonest or disingenuous. I get being offended by it; I'm asking what's dishonest about it.

[–]DevoutSubculture 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

I'm asking what's dishonest about it.

I have no idea. Let me just make a little show about the fat stinking cunt msleedoon (original character), who comically teaches my audience that everyone who disagrees with me is a mentally unstable lunatic, unattractive, stupid, and morally inferior. Also my character is an MRA hero with the most absurdly tragic story possible, caused entirely by women and feminists in particular.

Then I'll write an article about how my made up bullshit is the perfect, realistic counter to my real life opponents without every making a single cogent point or acknowledging the reality of my opponents.

[–]msleeduon -3 points-2 points-1 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

I'm not on the attack, I'm actually just trying to get your/the O.P.'s perspective.

I'll ask this a different way: what would a satire of an MRA look like that didn't go too far?

[–]BlueOrange22[S] 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

You're grossly oversimplifying the issue and entirely missing the point- did you not read my post? You are also apparently not very good at reading comprehension because the article clearly states that the portrayal is "not far from the truth". The article implies that the MRM is sexist and against equality, which simply isn't true.

I suspect that you are not have this conversation in good faith and are here to manipulate and discredit.

[–]msleeduon -3 points-2 points-1 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I'm having a hard time articulating myself, but it's not a hostile question. I have no problem stating bluntly the things I disagree with. MRM has a strong strain of sexism in it, for instance. But that's not what I'm getting at here. I'm trying to get to what is distorted in the portrayal of this character versus what is just wrong.

[–]BlueOrange22[S] 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

All of it. If you really believe that Fran represents MRAs, you have a gross misconception about what the MRM is about. We support equality, would not have supported the reverand, and thibk in an equal society women should work to help pay taxes and bills.

There isn't a strong stain of sexism in the MRM- which MRM view do you thibk is sexist, and why? The MRM is a very fair and sensible ideology. It isn't us who advocates for treating people differently for their gender, or discrimination against people for their gender, as feminists.

I personally think the anti MRM movement is very sexist, it's simply bigotry disguised as "social justice". There's nothing socially just about preventing the goals of the MRM.

[–]BlueOrange22[S] 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago* (4 children) | Copy Link

The men's rights movement is nothing like they imply. And you saying it's "just satire" makes no sense, the article implies that the MRM is misogynistic and toxic in real life. They are painting a very negative and inaccurate image which fosters misconceptions about what the MRM is and believes

[–]msleeduon 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

What I'm trying to get at is the difference between bad satire and inaccurate satire. I get why you think it's bad satire, but what specifically is inaccurate about it?

Example: Hank Hill's wife is often a bad satire of a feminist. Poison Ivy is an inaccurate satire of a feminist.

[–]BlueOrange22[S] 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

It isn't just the satire, it's the way the article implies that it's true.

[–]msleeduon 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

HThe charactere seems to me to be a mosaic of a lot of the worst qualities of MRAs, any of which you can find to a nontrivial extent in these communities but rarely would one find compiled all in one person. It paints this community by its worst, not by its nonexistant.

[–]BlueOrange22[S] 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Even if the show does, the article has a clear tone that the majority of the MRM can be described by those qualities.

A person also might say the tone of the show was disingenuous in its portrayal, because it will affirm a perception to viewers that is common believed and inaccurate

[–]contexistential -2 points-1 points0 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

How is it dishonest?

[–]William__F0ster 3 points4 points5 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

intellectually.

OP kind of makes that clear, no?

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