The man who accused "Melrose Place" star Jamie Luner of sexually assaulting him when he was 16 years old has now filed a $250 million lawsuit against the actress.

[–]mwobuddy 9 points10 points11 points 8 years ago (31 children) | Copy Link

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[–]Mythandros 7 points8 points9 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

I'm a feminist. I'm also a normal person.

You might as well admit to being a skinhead, or a Nazi. Feminism is hate and anyone who willingly calls themselves a feminist is hateful. This admission alone damages your credibility beyond repair.

I think the patriarchy is what has prevented men from coming forward about abuse. Some men have lived with the painful effects of abuse their entire lives without being able to tell anyone and without being able to heal. That's horrible and I'm glad that's changing.

Facepalm Please stop with the "patriarchy" garbage. You and I both know no such thing exists. It is an excuse to allow feminists to hate on men and has yet to be proven to exist.

Nothing about this threatens women's privilege. It threatens abusers with exposure and consequences, and hopefully it prevents more abuse. Men who come forward are very brave. They're changing the world.

I never said anything about women's privilege, I mentioned feminists specifically. Please don't twist my words.

I do agree that more abused men should come forward. A massive amount of abuse goes un/underreported. It would only make things better.

[–]super_common_name 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Feminism isn't hateful, as my comment demonstrates. We just agreed on the topic of abused men. There's nothing hateful about that. I think you have a misconception of feminism -- I'm an ordinary mainstream feminist, as are almost all of my friends. This is what we believe: the same thing you believe.

As I used the term "patriarchy" it means that men who come forward about sexual abuse are made fun of, insulted, or disbelieved. All because the sexual abuse of men doesn't fit the stereotype that a man should always want sex, always be strong, etc. Honestly, I wouldn't have used the term "patriarchy" if you hadn't used it first. I would've said that sexism is what has kept men from coming forward. I only used the word "patriarchy" because you seemed to think that feminists would use that concept as a reason to denigrate men who come forward about abuse. On the contrary, people who are sexist would denigrate male survivors of abuse -- in other words, people who adhere to the "patriarchy."

I don't think anything about men coming forward about sexual abuse threatens "feminist privilege" whatever that is. I don't think female feminists have any privileges that other women don't have. But they certainly don't have privileges that might be threatened by male survivors of abuse coming forward.

As for the massive amount of abuse that goes un/underreported: YES.

You know those studies that show how much unreported abuse there is? They almost always show that more women than men have been abused. And I know those studies are based on anonymous surveys and such, but here's the thing: my guess is that women survivors are more likely to answer the survey questions honestly than men survivors. In other words, I think our culture is such that men are afraid to tell the truth about their abuse even on an anonymous survey. In fact, I bet that some have blanked out the abuse or don't even recognize it as abuse. All abuse survivors are shamed in our culture, but men are shamed in a particular way. Their very gender identity is threatened. Their sexuality is threatened. It's a very specific, insidious, devastating kind of shaming that drives any discussion or even consciousness of the abuse underground.

We won't know how common the abuse of men is until we break that stigma. And one of the ways that stigma is broken is by more men coming forward. Another way, of course, is making it socially unacceptable to shame male survivors of abuse. But I suspect there are far more male survivors of abuse than the current studies indicate.

[–]Mythandros 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Feminism isn't hateful, as my comment demonstrates. We just agreed on the topic of abused men. There's nothing hateful about that. I think you have a misconception of feminism -- I'm an ordinary mainstream feminist, as are almost all of my friends. This is what we believe: the same thing you believe.

I have had to deal with feminism for over 30 years. It's extremely hateful. There is no misconception there. Feminists blame men for everything and take no responsibility for their actions or the actions of their feminist "sisters".

As I used the term "patriarchy" it means that men who come forward about sexual abuse are made fun of, insulted, or disbelieved. All because the sexual abuse of men doesn't fit the stereotype that a man should always want sex, always be strong, etc. Honestly, I wouldn't have used the term "patriarchy" if you hadn't used it first. I would've said that sexism is what has kept men from coming forward. I only used the word "patriarchy" because you seemed to think that feminists would use that concept as a reason to denigrate men who come forward about abuse. On the contrary, people who are sexist would denigrate male survivors of abuse -- in other words, people who adhere to the "patriarchy."

The problem isn't the word itself. The problem is the concept behind it.

First problem is that it is used as a catch-all term with a definition that is so fluid from feminist to feminist that it has no set definition. This alone makes it an invalid concept. Yet feminists still use it.

Second problem is that it's called "patriarchy" which points the finger squarely at men and men only. This is yet another reason why such a stupid term should never be used by anyone.

Third, you have no proof of patriarchy, so discussing it as if it were a real term makes you look.... Foolish at the best of times.

I don't think anything about men coming forward about sexual abuse threatens "feminist privilege" whatever that is. I don't think female feminists have any privileges that other women don't have. But they certainly don't have privileges that might be threatened by male survivors of abuse coming forward.

Feminists have plenty of privilege, so please check yours before coming to a men's rights sub and having that kind of conversation.

Women in society are favored unfairly over men constantly. You have special jobs, titles and entitlements given to you for being born female. Things that are not also given to men. You have to be blind not to see that.

You know those studies that show how much unreported abuse there is? They almost always show that more women than men have been abused. And I know those studies are based on anonymous surveys and such, but here's the thing: my guess is that women survivors are more likely to answer the survey questions honestly than men survivors. In other words, I think our culture is such that men are afraid to tell the truth about their abuse even on an anonymous survey.

Yes, because they are openly mocked, shamed and demonized for it. Feminists are responsible for society thinking that way because you and your ilk have brainwashed people into thinking that men cannot be abused and this alone makes feminism hateful. There are many other reasons too.

In fact, I bet that some have blanked out the abuse or don't even recognize it as abuse.

Yes, because like I said... Feminists have damaged the way society views men by painting us as rapists, monsters and killers. That is evil. There is no other word for it. Feminism is evil.

All abuse survivors are shamed in our culture, but men are shamed in a particular way. Their very gender identity is threatened. Their sexuality is threatened. It's a very specific, insidious, devastating kind of shaming that drives any discussion or even consciousness of the abuse underground.

Agree 100%.

We won't know how common the abuse of men is until we break that stigma. And one of the ways that stigma is broken is by more men coming forward. Another way, of course, is making it socially unacceptable to shame male survivors of abuse.

Which feminism still does, en masse. Feminism has cause so much damage to our society that it needs to go away forever. I have been burned by feminism and feminists time and time again. I will NEVER, EVER trust or cooperate with anyone who willingly takes on the feminist label. You will find lots of people here who feel the same way. Feminism truly is cancerous. That is the truth.

But I suspect there are far more male survivors of abuse than the current studies indicate.

I know there are. In fact I would even guess that more men are abused by women than women are by men. And I don't think it's even close to even. Not by a long shot.

I am not putting this forward as fact, just as my opinion.

[–]super_common_name 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I have had to deal with feminism for over 30 years. It's extremely hateful. There is no misconception there. Feminists blame men for everything and take no responsibility for their actions or the actions of their feminist "sisters".

I've been an active member of feminist communities for over 50 years. You can find fringes or short-lived movements that deserve criticism, but the commonly-accepted tenets of feminism are not hateful.

First problem is that it is used as a catch-all term with a definition that is so fluid from feminist to feminist that it has no set definition. This alone makes it an invalid concept. Yet feminists still use it.

You know, most words that describe general concepts have slightly differing definitions. Even words like "engineer" can mean a lot of different things. That's how words are. I don't typically use that word and I don't know what definitions you've heard so I can't really address that. I will say that often there are soundbyte definitions for things, then more in-depth definitions, and that definitions evolve over time as new ideas are developed. That's all words, not just patriarchy.

Second problem is that it's called "patriarchy" which points the finger squarely at men and men only. This is yet another reason why such a stupid term should never be used by anyone.

Patriarchy doesn't blame men. Men are living in the same sexist system that women are living in. The system that drafts men into the military and exempts women. Men are negatively affected by sexism in countless ways.

Third, you have no proof of patriarchy, so discussing it as if it were a real term makes you look.... Foolish at the best of times.

I don't know what "proof" means in this context. It's obvious we live in a sexist system. This sub acknowledges that all the time.

I don't think anything about men coming forward about sexual abuse threatens "feminist privilege" whatever that is. I don't think female feminists have any privileges that other women don't have. But they certainly don't have privileges that might be threatened by male survivors of abuse coming forward.

Feminists have plenty of privilege, so please check yours before coming to a men's rights sub and having that kind of conversation.

Women in society are favored unfairly over men constantly. You have special jobs, titles and entitlements given to you for being born female. Things that are not also given to men. You have to be blind not to see that.

Okay, first I said that men coming forward about sexual abuse doesn't threaten women's privilege. Then you replied "I said feminist privilege. Don't twist my words." So now I'm saying I don't think female feminists have privileges that other women don't have. You say they do, but the only examples you give are privileges all women have whether they are feminist or not.

Yes, because they are openly mocked, shamed and demonized for it. Feminists are responsible for society thinking that way because you and your ilk have brainwashed people into thinking that men cannot be abused and this alone makes feminism hateful. There are many other reasons too.

Has there been any period in history where men aren't demonized for being abuse victims? In the US, there was a feminist movement in the mid-1800s, then again in the late 1800s - 1920s, then again starting in the 1960s. Men were mocked for these things throughout US history. The 1950s in the US is probably the least feminist decade in modern history, yet men would've been mocked for being abuse survivors. In the 1970s, feminists were the people who said boys should be allowed to cry without being told "boys don't cry" and boys should be allowed to play with dolls without being called a sissy. It's simply false to say that feminists are responsible for sexist male gender roles.

In fact, I bet that some have blanked out the abuse or don't even recognize it as abuse.

Yes, because like I said... Feminists have damaged the way society views men by painting us as rapists, monsters and killers. That is evil. There is no other word for it. Feminism is evil.

Feminism was instrumental in helping women tell their stories of abuse, including sexual abuse. Feminists are the reason children are taught that they have the right to their own bodies. The reason children are believed when they say that someone in authority -- like a priest -- or someone in a nurturing role -- like a father or uncle -- abused them. Feminists had to struggle to be heard, and that may make you think they paint men as rapists, etc. But I've read a lot of the current feminist literature abut rape, and over and over again I see the same statistic: fewer than 5% of men have ever committed rape. Our society excuses that, so they go on to commit more and more rapes -- I think the average is 7 per rapist over a lifetime. They're also responsible for most other violent crime as well. If rapists were actually convicted and jailed for rape, it would prevent a lot of other violent crime. Feminists want our culture to condemn rape instead of the million ways it turns a blind eye to it. I'm sure you've heard prison rape jokes. What kind of society accepts and even laughs at rape as a normal part of incarceration? I've seen feminists call out that kind of thinking over and over again. That doesn't mean that we paint all men as rapists, etc. It means we condemn a culture that doesn't take rape seriously.

Which feminism still does, en masse. Feminism has cause so much damage to our society that it needs to go away forever. I have been burned by feminism and feminists time and time again. I will NEVER, EVER trust or cooperate with anyone who willingly takes on the feminist label. You will find lots of people here who feel the same way. Feminism truly is cancerous. That is the truth.

I don't know how you can say that when you're messaging with a feminist who is doing the opposite, and who is telling you that all the feminists she knows believe what she believes. But I've spent too much time on this conversation and I've already repeated myself, so I'll stop now.

[–]Greg_W_Allan 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[–]super_common_name 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

I mean there were no shelters or services at all before feminists created them. If they hadn't created them, you still wouldn't have any shelters or services. They are always strapped for resources, and I'm not sure how much (if any) government funding they receive in the US. It has taken thousands of women decades to build the domestic violence resources they have now and it still isn't enough.

You're in Canada, right? I'm in the US so I don't know anything about how funding works there, but I think you told me your story before and it really wasn't that simple. If your government won't fund a shelter for men, or if taxpayers vote against it, or if men don't do the fundraising and donating and volunteering, that's not exactly feminists having blood on their hands.

I've volunteered at a shelter in the past, and I can tell you they're extremely difficult to run. Logistics would dictate that you'd pretty much have to create a shelter designated for men, and then you'd have to staff it and run it. Even logistics at the shelter I volunteered at were less than ideal. We had 30 days to find a job, an apt, and resources for each family because after 30 days they'd be legally classified as tenants and couldn't be evicted without a lot of notice, expense, and legal hassle. So people had to heal physically and emotionally at the same time they had to lock down everything in their lives so they couldn't be found at the same time they had to find the money and shelter to last them after the 30 days were up.

I don't know what kind of work US men are doing to create and run shelters like that, but it's hard work and it doesn't happen overnight. Women did this and are doing it from scratch on a shoestring budget. One story of one guy who couldn't get government funding -- well, multiply that by a thousand and that's what the feminists have faced, too. That's simply how difficult it is to build and run a shelter. Lots of shelters never get built or they close down or they have to turn people away.

I know the feminists at my shelter talked about women abusing men, and they had started some programs for men. I don't remember the details of what happened in Canada, but I know it's never that simple.

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First, he said blood was on their hands. How can it be on their hands if nobody else created shelters for men? Nobody else even created shelters at all. The whole idea of shelters is a feminist idea. If there's blood on anyone's hands it's on the people who did nothing while feminists at least got started doing something concrete. Second, you can be disingenuous all you want but there are real-world logistics to overcome in order to have both men and women in the same shelter. And shelters already turn families away because they're full. Which means you probably need to create another shelter. That's not exactly the same as excluding men. Third, start building shelters! If you exclude a class of people from the vote, it's not like they can go vote. But if men aren't allowed in women's shelters, people can go build more shelters.

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