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Today in WTF: "I think the next fight for us women is to ensure artificial intelligence does not become the ultimate expression of masculinity."

andejoh

March 26, 2018
212 upvotes
/r/MensRights
http://archive.is/DkYpz#selection-1625.19-1625.147
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Title Today in WTF: "I think the next fight for us women is to ensure artificial intelligence does not become the ultimate expression of masculinity."
Author

andejoh

Upvotes 212
Comments 29
Date March 26, 2018 12:22 AM UTC
(8 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/8750e9/today_in_wtf_i_think_the_next_fight_for_us_women/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/today-in-wtf-i-think-the-next-fight-for-us-women.903790
https://theredarchive.com/post/903790
Red Pill terms in post
feminism
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Comments

[–]Lethn 61 points62 points63 points 8 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

The algorithm had been designed to learn how to mimic others by copying their speech. But within 24 hours of being online, it had been led astray, and became a genocide-supporting, anti-feminist Nazi, tweeting messages such as: “Hitler did nothing wrong.”

LOL! Oh 4chan :D with their trolling they've accidentally ended up completely debunking this a author's view on what algorithm's and AI actually are. While certainly there can be bias in any creation if the whole goal of learning AI is to give it a blank slate and let it learn about things on it's own. Tay started spamming about Nazis and Hitler because 4chan knew about this and they made her learn the wrong things, a youtuber called Internet Historian even did a video on it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HsLup7yy-6I

This video still makes me laugh by the way :D

Believe it or not, I have an interest in this because I've been looking at machine learning for games and have a general interest in AI and I'm looking at getting some fairly complicated NPCs setup for shooter mechanics I'm developing. So things like patrolling, having them search for the player and so on. So yes, I do know a thing or two about this, they've unfortunately stumbled into pretending to know everything about work I'm involved in. I can't speak about subjects like Google algorithm's though but have a fair understanding.

What can we do about it? Obviously, encouraging more women to take up the profession and create algorithms would be a great step forward, and we are still lagging behind on this. However, we also need to start querying the outcomes of the decisions made by algorithms and demand transparency in the process that leads to them.

Algorithms do not care about your fucking gender you dipshit, they actually think that by automatically putting women in charge of algorithm's for a company they can somehow change society? What a load of utter fanciful shite.

What we need is a progressive, enlightened digital politics aimed at getting the most out of technology: a better environment, better healthcare, a better work-life balance. To achieve that, we need better governance of AI – and women must be at the heart of this.

Even with this ridiculous plan, she's forgetting one thing, in order for her plan to even have a chance of succeeding she needs to encourage other feminists to go into programming and learn how to write ( Not 'create' ) algorithm's in the first place and feminists are a bunch of unbearably hysterical halfwits whose only interests lie in going to the nearest Starbuck's to write blog posts about how terrible men are and that society needs to smash the Capitalist patriarchy.

What an utterly delusional cunt.

[–][deleted] 15 points16 points17 points 8 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Kind of off topic, but I fully suspect there will be AIs deployed to heavily censor online communication (think Metal Gear Solid 2).

[–]Lethn 14 points15 points16 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Doesn't work, the Communist Party tried putting in a chat bot and it started debunking Communism :D

http://archive.is/owHsL

Seriously, people think that A.I are going to be built purely to oppress us and so on and have all these scary scenarios thought out when they fail to realise that A.I are like children and will absorb and learn literally anything if they find it or at least question it generally.

Even if it were the case A.I gets developed that somehow manages to think like a human being. If it's a human being, they're hardly going to side with these elitists after discovering what they're up to generally and seeing how they treat other people.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I don't think it would work very well at all, but I don't think the kind of people who would do this give many shits about false positives. It would just be programmed to scrub "hate speech" just in case. I could see it being targeted at the MRM and banning Mens Lib type feminists, for example.

[–]Lethn 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Sure, they'll definitely try, but in the end because it rely on an internet connection and so on someone will immediately be able to shut it off or mess with it completely.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I hope you're right.

[–]fengpi 6 points7 points8 points 8 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

I remember when Siri first came-out, feminists were quick to scream misogyny because it couldn't answer "where's the nearest abortion clinic?"

Really, they ought to have asked "where's the nearest combination blood bank and burrito shack?" which would have yielded similar results.

[–]butterman403 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

mechanics I'm developing

Off topic, but please hmu if you ever make a tech demo of this

!remindme 3 months

[–]Lethn 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

I try not to spam too much about it but for people interested I have a blog now that shows all of what I'm doing.

https://steemit.com/@lethn1

At the moment, I am currently just doing animating and artwork though, for my main game which I will be releasing and also animating the humanoid model that I have.

[–]McFeely_Smackup 23 points24 points25 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

well, some ladies are going to have to choose to get a degree in Computer Science instead of Gender Studies then. And we all know that's not gonna happen.

[–]boringcarpets 5 points6 points7 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Not even - a degree doesn't mean shit, the interest in the first place, the desire to learn to code and build, the hours put in in their own time - women in general lack that thing

[–]PM_me_ur_swimsuit 10 points11 points12 points 8 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

How the hell does something non biological have a gender? Yes it could have a male or female sounding voice or physical characteristics, but it's a machine! They don't have a gender!

[–]fengpi 16 points17 points18 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

How the hell does something non biological have a gender? Yes it could have a male or female sounding voice or physical characteristics, but it's a machine! They don't have a gender!

Simple! If it says something which offends a feminist, it's masculine. If it says something which gives a feminist warm fuzzies inside, it's feminine. Only a trained feminist is qualified to decide these things for the rest of us because they said so.

[–]PM_me_ur_swimsuit 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Does that apply to feminists that are biologically male, female, or in between?

[–]fengpi 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

It sounds as if you're forgetting the other 428 genders, bigot.

[–]PM_me_ur_swimsuit 3 points4 points5 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Last I checked we were at seventy something...fuck I'm old....

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It's based on the idea that men and women don't think exactly alike. So the issue then becomes that if the basis for AI is rooted in ways of thinking that are more aligned with male ways of thinking, that it inheratly could leave the female perspective by the wayside. To understand this better, imagine that you found out that 99% of AI development was being done by liberals (or conservative if you are a liberal). Then you read about how AI is going to control everything and guide the world into the future...you could imagine that you might not be keen on that idea. It actually acknoldges to some degree that men and women are not alike.

[–]fengpi 8 points9 points10 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

How long will it be before an artificial intelligence is accused of rape and/or reinforcing rape culture?

The fact that it'll be shaped like a box, be immobile and have an 'off' switch will be irrelevant, of course.

[–]Electroverted 7 points8 points9 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I figured this out recently. A lot of feminists are philosophy and sociology majors, which is why they pull this weird shit out of their hats.

Another example is why they're so prone to arguing with the dictionary: Feels before reals.

[–]JohnnySaintsWig 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

She doesn't understand how algorithms work. Especially Google's search algorithm.

This is a garbage article written by an amateur.

[–]8880886 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Oh yeah it's an utter shit show and complete misunderstanding of AI, but it some small way it does having a standing current of the way genders view AI. The female perspective is nearly always love and cherish AI becuase it will make life easier and the male perspective is nearly always trepidation of Pandora's box. Women are going to get hit the hardest by AI anyway, as it will most likely fill the white collar non-specific sorting information jobs like legal secreataires and accounting. Men will get hit when the robots catch up in dexterity to replicate our complex movements, which prob won't be far off either. And lastly the idea that AI would reserve is intelligence for the better of mankind or man over woman or what ever bullshit over ITSELF, is some grand delusion of epic scale. No one had ANY idea what motivations AI will generate/decide for itself cause we won't have the intelligence or imagination to understand it.

[–]designplays 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I get error 503

[–]andejoh[S] 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

That's a server side error. Usually you just need to try it again in a little while. Here's a copy and paste from the archive.

"he overarching problem of men dictating the rules has found new expression in something that is currently changing the way we live and breathe: artificial intelligence (AI). Let us be clear. There are great benefits in the use of AI and we should cherish them. However, the issue is not innovation, or the pace of technological improvement. The real problem is the governance of AI, the ethics underpinning it, the boundaries we give it and, within that, who is going to define all those. With that in mind, I think the next fight for us women is to ensure artificial intelligence does not become the ultimate expression of masculinity. There are many reasons to fear this could happen. First, the algorithms that codify human choices about how decisions should be made. It is not possible for algorithms to remain immune from the human values of their creators. If a non-diverse workforce is creating them, they are more prone to be implanted with unexamined, undiscussed, often unconscious assumptions and biases about things such as race, gender and class. What if the workforce designing those algorithms is male-dominated? This is the first major problem: the lack of female scientists and, even worse, the lack of true intersectional thinking behind the creation of algorithms.

Bill Gates believes governments should tax companies’ use of robots, as a way to fund other types of employment 

Examples of bias were reported by the Guardian a few years back, showing that searching Google for the phrase “unprofessional hairstyles for work” led to images of mainly black women with natural hair, while searching for “professional hairstyles” offered pictures of coiffed white women. Or take Microsoft’s Tay chatbot, which was created to strike up conversations with millennials on Twitter. The algorithm had been designed to learn how to mimic others by copying their speech. But within 24 hours of being online, it had been led astray, and became a genocide-supporting, anti-feminist Nazi, tweeting messages such as: “Hitler did nothing wrong.” What can we do about it? Obviously, encouraging more women to take up the profession and create algorithms would be a great step forward, and we are still lagging behind on this. However, we also need to start querying the outcomes of the decisions made by algorithms and demand transparency in the process that leads to them. Although the new EU General Data Protection Regulation does not go far enough, it does broaden the definition of profiling activities, thus providing us with tools to avoid profiling-based decisions by questioning them. There are no legal certainties yet about how far the new European regulations, which come into force on 25 May, can be taken, but pressure must be applied to ensure AI algorithms are not just powerful and scalable but also transparent to inspection. Google image searches for ‘unprofessional hair for work’ (left) and ‘professional hair for work’ (right) . Facebook Twitter Pinterest Google image searches for ‘unprofessional hair for work’ (left) and ‘professional hair for work’ (right) . Of course, the problem of AI goes beyond this. Some academics, such as Joanna Bryson and Luciano Floridi, argue that AI companies should be regulated like architects, who learn to work with city planners, certification schemes and licences to make buildings safe. They argue for watchdogs and regulators. It is encouraging that in the UK the government has set up the Centre for Data Ethics. This new body is tasked with advising on the measures needed to enable and ensure safe, ethical and innovative uses of data-driven technologies. Tech UK, which represents the tech industry, is also having conversations on the subject. For the feminist movement, the challenge is to frame the debate and not to let others decide for us. And let’s not forget the impact on the labour market, with women projected to take the biggest hits to jobs in the near future as a result of automation replacing human activities, according to the World Economic Forum. Women are more likely to be employed in jobs that face the highest automation risks. For example, 73% of cashiers in shops are women and 97% of cashiers are expected to lose their jobs to automation. The same report predicts that persistent gender gaps in science, technology, engineering and mathematics (Stem) fields over the next 15 years will also undermine women’s professional presence. And if robots are taking human jobs, we need to figure out how we would deal with a large jobless population. Bill Gates believes that governments should tax companies’ use of robots, as a way to at least temporarily slow the spread of automation and to fund other types of employment. And many now suggest that universal basic income is probably the only solution to the rise of robotic automation. This is appealing to many but it does pose questions from a feminist perspective: if the only jobs available will be in science and technology, how is that going to work for women in the light of the gender gaps in those professions? If we followed that route, would we be paving the way to men at work and women at home? Google’s AI is being used by US military drone programme Read more What we need is a progressive, enlightened digital politics aimed at getting the most out of technology: a better environment, better healthcare, a better work-life balance. To achieve that, we need better governance of AI – and women must be at the heart of this. The Fabian Women’s Network has decided it is time to take action and throw our weight behind the cause. This month, we are launching our Women Leading in AI series. At the first gathering on 22 May, we are bringing together some of the most interesting and thought-provoking female voices on AI, ranging from business and academia to thinktanks. It is time for women not only to investigate what AI means for us, but also to make sure we frame and lead the debate about its governance and purpose, so it becomes a force for the common good and not the ultimate expression of masculine control."

[–]thwml 3 points4 points5 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

"I think the next fight for us women is to ensure artificial intelligence does not become the ultimate expression of masculinity."

This is what immediatley came to mind when I read that quote.

[–]Ted8367 7 points8 points9 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

For the feminist movement, the challenge is to frame the debate and not to let others decide for us.

No, they're going to decide for the rest of us. Business as usual.

[+]Daddie01 points 8 years ago* [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

If radical feminist get a hold of AI it will be like towards the end of the I, Robot with the bat shit crazy super computer VIKI "My logic is undeniable."

[–]NibblyPig 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

A robot may not injure a woman or, through inaction, allow a woman to come to harm.

A robot must obey orders given it by women except where such orders would conflict with the First Law.

A robot must protect its own existence as long as such protection does not conflict with the First or Second Law.

Actually this sounds familiar...

[–]perplexedm 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Though Amazon Alexa is toting feminist and is gone bonkers laughing like a Hyena now.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

You have to love nonsense like this. The article is basically just:

"My ignorance has allowed me to concoct a horror show scenario in my head so I can worry about it, and I'm going to demand that other people (men) prevent it from coming to pass, even though I have no idea how that would actually happen or how they would go about preventing it"

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