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In Sweden Being a Prostitute Is Legal but Paying for One is Illegal

maceurt

March 2, 2018
47 upvotes
/r/MensRights
https://www.buzzfeed.com/jinamoore/in-sweden-being-a-prostitute-is-legal-but-paying-one-isnt?utm_term=.fveRDZme3#.uhYOvZ5l1
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Post Information
Title In Sweden Being a Prostitute Is Legal but Paying for One is Illegal
Author

maceurt

Upvotes 47
Comments 25
Date March 2, 2018 2:43 AM UTC
(8 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/81b41g/in_sweden_being_a_prostitute_is_legal_but_paying/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/in-sweden-being-a-prostitute-is-legal-but-paying.905129
https://theredarchive.com/post/905129
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Comments

[–]kartu3 10 points11 points12 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

That's been like that for a while, and we know why.

A new twist to it is to push for paying for prostitutes being illegal even if you are abroad.

Not bad, huh?

[–]mwobuddy 34 points35 points36 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Because they consider prostitutes sex trafficking Victims, and so the Feminist groups that work with/in the government want to remove the crime of Prostitution so that victims aren't charged as criminals. That makes sense until you start looking at all the women who freely prostitute because its easier than working 20-40 hours a week for far less pay.

And since prostitutes are a female dominated industry and the clients are male dominated, they want to punish males, not females. Another slice of feminism. Males' sexuality has long been demonized by the agenda.

[–]EricAllonde 15 points16 points17 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

they want to punish males, not females. Another slice of feminism.

This is it, exactly.

[–]Lethn 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

This is a good explanation, but it goes a bit deeper than that and I found this out when I was studying anti-capitalists. Since feminism and anti-capitalism are now often one in the same, you have the anti-capitalist rhetoric of what's called "wage slavery" where anti-capitalists view any form of employment as a form of oppression because of how Capitalism oppresses the working classes.

So in the feminist world, that's a double negative which is why they're more against prostitution than Christians. You not only have the feminist ideology telling them that prostitutes area always victims are being oppressed by men for their bodies you also have the situation of Capitalism ( Or the 'Capitalist patriarchy' ) for example oppressing them because they have 'no choice' in the matter and couldn't possibly be doing it of their own violation.

Yes, I know it's nuts, but this is what they actually believe from what I remember, it's just worth taking that into account if you ever encounter somebody who flies off into one of these rants about prostitution generally.

[–]mwobuddy 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

That actually all ties into Marxist ideology from which Suffragette/Feminism sprung. I don't think there's ever really a point in western culture where the two weren't intertwined. It's no coincidence that Suffragette movements reached full screech right around the time Marx arrived on the scene.

When you read suffragette literature, three things pop up: Prostitutes are exploited by men, regular women are exploited by men and their sexual desires (which is tainting and impurifying, as women never want sex right?), and men are the root of moral decay. It frames women as victims who have no choice. The movement was born of this concept, and never grew out of it. It is a fundamental tenet to Suff/Feminism, and so to acknowledge that women have choice and CHOOSE to have sex with men or choose to prostitute themselves, is to suggest that one of the reasons for the movement's being is actually not completely true.

Feminism is the essence of double-think. Women are helpless victims along for the ride by brutish, oppressing men, but if women do anything viewed as good, they did it as free agents making their own choices in the world, hell, even better because they did it making their own choices in spite of oppression! So if a woman is 'victimized' by staying low class, not having a good job or education, its not her fault, but toxic masculinity/patriarchy keeping her down. If she does good, it proves that women are not only equal to but better than men because she can 'fight the world which belongs to men and beat them'.

We still haven't matured as a society, because we still treat women like children, and feminism supports doing that. If Feminism was really all for equality, they'd be demanding women get imprisoned and dehumanized for committing acts ranging from murder to child molesting. They'd be speaking out to condemn women like that whenever they show up, instead of staying STRANGELY silent.

[–]furchfur 5 points6 points7 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

This is the same in France, Iceland and Canada.

[–]HeForeverBleeds 5 points6 points7 points 8 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

I wonder if women who hire gigolos are punished as consistently

[–]Halafax 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

That's an extremely small segment of the population. They barely exist, why draw a comparison?

[–]Lethn 11 points12 points13 points 8 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

Because you're a hypocrite if you think that laws shouldn't be enforced equally based on how often the crime happens?

[–]Halafax 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Not a hypocrite, but good luck finding someone to apply it to.

[–]Lethn 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

How is that not hypocritical then?

[–]Halafax 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

"behaving in a way that suggests one has higher standards or more noble beliefs than is the case."

I'm not saying to hold women to a different standard. I'm saying the number of women paying for sex is vanishing small.

Why bring up a counter example that only barely exists?

[–]Lethn 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Because it's always used as a convenient excuse to enforce the laws differently and ignore the problem if it happens to another gender. We see this constantly with feminists in particular "The problem is small, therefore I don't have to care about it" yet they'll spin around and comparatively tell us that online harassment is such a serious issue it needs to have new laws passed to get anything done even though you can quite easily get rid of spammers by pressing the block button.

[–]Halafax 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I have no wish to enforce the law differently. If someone is going to use an example, they should try to use a meaningful one. We want to eventually reach an audience outside of this sub, presentation counts.

My guess is that women paying for sex in scandinavian countries would not be held to the same rules on prostitution that men are. Whether or not their law is gender neutral, it wouldn't be enforced in a gender neutral way. The law is easily subverted by public opinion- women get more sympathy, are considered to be less dangerous.

I don't like the scandinavian prostitution model. It's inherently sexist because of the market it regulates. Very few women pay for sex, they generally don't have to. Even in feminist nations like Sweden, there is no meaningful demand.

The scandinavian model also creates an automatic blackmail industry. Any prostitute can threaten their client after the fact, as could anyone surveilling the prostitute.

[–]thrway_1000 -1 points0 points1 point 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Not as small as the press and people want you to think.

[–]JebberJabber 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

Source?
I saw a claim that one brothel in Sydney had 6% women clients and growing fast, which is a lot more than other sources I've seen on the subject. Maybe it was their specialty. A more common report is that a brothel might try keeping one guy on duty and not get much business.

[–]thrway_1000 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

I was going off of actual street and trafficked prostitutes, not professional. Like this: 3 in 4 B.C. boys on street sexually exploited by women [Link]. There are other sources on boys trafficked over the world for sex that showed a large percentage were used by women, but it's usually not considered as much of a problem. Like this: "Boys make up 50 percent of the sex trafficked victims in the U.S." [Link].

There is also the whole "romance tourism" that's even the mainstream press decided was "okay" because it was women exploiting young men and that makes it more palatable than regular sex tourism. And much larger scale than most would think: "An estimated 650,000 Western women have engaged in travel sex from 1980 to the present, many of them as repeat customers. By some estimates, 80,000 North American and European women travel to Jamaica for sex every year." [Link].

I could probably find more but it's an under-researched and neglected area. When it comes to male victims there's little empathy and less willingness to address the problem - especially when women are the perpetrators.

[–]hc84 3 points4 points5 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Many women use sex as a source of power. They want to control how men have sex, so they can be controlled.

[–]thrway_1000 3 points4 points5 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Archive stupid sites -- https://archive.is/cZZoY

[+]PlastIconoclastic -8 points-7 points-6 points 8 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

This isn’t sexist. This is harm reduction for a marginalized group. The country has banned sex for money. You may justifiably argue that a well regulated sex work industry would actually do a better job of ending sex trafficking, but this is not sexist.

[–]ThePigmanAgain 7 points8 points9 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

LOL! Most hookers are female, most Johns are male. Noooo, nothing sexist about that! I suppose banning romance novels wouldn't be sexist either!

[–]Sasha_ 6 points7 points8 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

You ever met a hooker? I'm always impressed by people who make assumptions about them despite knowing nothing and never bothering to find out. Prostitutes aren't trafficked - that's pure feminist hysteria/myths. They hate/envy sex so they think women must be forced into it because it's unthinkable that any women would simply love cock.

I've met loads of prostitutes, and they all loved their job because they all loved fucking.

[–]JebberJabber 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

Prostitutes aren't trafficked - that's pure feminist hysteria/myths.

There is hysteria, sure. I thought it came more from religious people opposed to the sex industry than from feminists. I saw an article about the very dodgy numbers being promoted. But that doesn't mean trafficking isn't a major problem in some places.

[Feminists] hate/envy sex so they think women must be forced into it because it's unthinkable that any women would simply love cock.

In my experience feminists love cock as much as other women.

Feminists don't believe women are all forced into it. Since the end of the 1980s the majority position (3rd wave) has been that women often choose to become prostitutes, though their choice may be a very dismal one.

I've met loads of prostitutes, and they all loved their job because they all loved fucking.

I've met loads of Amway people and they all loved meeting people and helping them achieve financial freedom.

I've lived in the red light area in three cities. I didn't have a lot to do with the workers but they did not look like happy people living the life they chose. The idea that they enjoyed screwing the clients does not fit with what I saw and heard. The ones who worked the streets expressed tolerance at best, loathing and contempt were common. They wanted their money not their cock. I know some pros have better experiences and can be affectionate with their regulars but that's not what I saw.

I've come across a lot of women in our mental health support subs who have done sex work, or are currently doing it.
The part they love is the money. The fucking, not so much. They often describe developing an unhealthy ability to dissociate, having to spend a portion of their income on tranquiliser type drugs to be able to be able to function, maybe developing PTSD. Some people handle it OK, many don't. It should be a clue that a large proportion of people who go into sex work (including porn) were damaged in childhood in some way.

This might make it clearer to you: A lot of male prostitutes are said to be straight. They don't get to work with women much.

[–]iongnil -1 points0 points1 point 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

"I've met loads of prostitutes, and they all loved their job because they all loved fucking."

Well the ones you've met seen very different from the ones I've known. All the ones I've known lead very sad lives, chasing money to feed their children or feed a drug habit or both. In UK they get fined by courts which makes the problem worse because they then have to find more money so the courts end up being their worst pimps. No doubt some may lead gilded lives of pleasure and luxury, the vast majority do not. Even "Belle De Jour" the noted prostitute blogger, who was eventually discovered to be a scientific researcher, despite being one of the high end very well paid escorts said the life was grim.

[–]PlastIconoclastic -1 points0 points1 point 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I’m sorry, you are wrong. I have provided services to underage meth addicted girls who were taken from their families by online predators and exploited.

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