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Chimp "Girls" Play With "Dolls" Too—First Wild Evidence

Conscious_Caracal

January 27, 2018
203 upvotes
/r/MensRights
https://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2010/09/101220-chimpanzees-play-nature-nurture-science-animals-evolution/
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Title Chimp "Girls" Play With "Dolls" Too—First Wild Evidence
Author

Conscious_Caracal

Upvotes 203
Comments 17
Date January 27, 2018 10:43 AM UTC
(8 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/7tc1ry/chimp_girls_play_with_dolls_toofirst_wild_evidence/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/chimp-girls-play-with-dolls-toofirst-wild-evidence.906982
https://theredarchive.com/post/906982
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Comments

[–]mrwhibbley 63 points64 points65 points 8 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

My wife and I have never ever discouraged or encouraged our children to play with any particular type of toys. Our children have a okay room filled with all sorts of toys. My daughter prefers dolls and baby carriages, my son prefers Legos and other construction type toys. She loves her purse, he likes a back pack. Sure, you can argue that books and television encourage gender rolls, but they don't watch that much tv, and nowadays, most television shows are trying to veer women into more stereotypical male roles like fire fighters, construction and doctor, and yet you don't see male characters being nurses (except doc mcstuffins) , elementary teachers and so on. It is definitely nature, and as soon as women can understand that they are genetically predisposed to certain behavior, and that's ok, the sooner they can stop blaming men for lack of representation in areas they don't want to be in in the first place. That being said, women and women should have the same access and opportunity to those fields if they choose.

[–]jacksleepshere 41 points42 points43 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Yeah, equality in opportunity should be the issue, not equality of outcome.

[–]cknight18 9 points10 points11 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I do see the difficulty, though, in that the equality of opportunity is damn hard to measure accurately.

I think this issue in particular, we have to try to be as understanding as we can about where the other side is coming from (even if their side is denying science). When we say that some character traits have a biological basis that tends to differ between genders, I can see why feminists would think "they just want us back in the kitchen!" Whenever this issue comes up, I think it's very important to specify the why it's important to understand gender differences. Is it because we want to enforce stereotypes, and send all men to engineering schools and women to nursing school? Of course not! The issue I take, and why I so passionately fight against the "both genders are exactly the same" mantra, is the measures taken to correct the unequal outcomes. I'm sick of gender quotas in school and hiring, sick of rules being put in place at elementary schools about how much time boys are allowed to play with Legos, sick of female-only scholarships, etc.

We're never going to get equal outcomes in STEM and politics. The measures taken to "correct the imbalance" are here to stay so long as we assume men and women are exactly the same.

[–]cknight18 13 points14 points15 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I just find it hysterical that the loudest women who are upset over non-equal outcomes are always the ones who studied gender studies in college. You ask them why they chose their major, and they'll never admit they were conditioned by society. They truly knew what they want to do and followed their heart. It's the women who teach or become nurses or (gasp!) stay at home moms that didn't really have a choice in the matter.

[–]mrwhibbley 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The funny thing is that I am a male nurse. The vast majority of the women that I work with came into nursing because they were caring and nurturing. Although nursing itself will change that pretty quickly for the most part. What I found is that you can only give and love and care for so long and then it starts to great are you where you turn around and Jessica to perform your tasks. That doesn't mean it's the people that I work with I don't loving and caring, he truly are. But there is definitely a difference for the most part between the male nurses that I also work with, and the female nurses. The other thing is that in my area, the average nurse working 40 hours a week can easily make in the high five figures between 75 and $90,000. That doesn't sound like a career that is poorly paying.

[–]v574v 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Does your son have in interest in being a father?

[–]mrwhibbley 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

He has played with a doll around the time my wife was pregnant and when my daughter was a baby. But he no longer exhibits the same interest in being parental that my daughter does.

[–]v574v 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

How is he with her? Would you say that he considers himself her tertiary caregiver?

[–]mrwhibbley 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

No. They are 2 years apart. He's 5 and she's 3. They are competitive siblings and friends. He does help her with things sometimes but he isn't a caregiver at this age.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

5 year olds will be children. That's how it's supposed to be.

Parental feelings will come with puberty.

[–][deleted] 15 points16 points17 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Mammals are K-selected, meaning they invest a lot of time to individual offspring. Female mammals are especially the ones that take on the caretaker roles, and that is because they breastfeed. So they are required to be the prime caretaker of offspring, especially during the breastfeeding stage. Of course we expect females to be more likely to be interested in nurturing, warming and caring similar to the play of dolls. So I don’t see it as a surprise if females are predisposed to be more interested in care-taking.

[–]Demonspawn 8 points9 points10 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Mammals are K-selected

Actually, Mammals are both K and r selected (think Wolves vs Rabbits).

Humans, interestingly, show signs of both.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Thanks for the link!

I remember in my ecology course, that k and r selection is not exactly black and white, and exist more in a spectrum, however mammals (especially primates) are ridiculously K-selected

[–]YuenHsiaoTieng 3 points4 points5 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Totally not biological. This tribe has been corrupted by the patriarchy /s

[–]PrimarySupport 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It's not their fault. The dolls were deliberately painted pink by the sly patriarchal researchers. If they had painted them blue the male chimps would have been just as happy to play with dolls.

[–]boringcarpets 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Independent Man: Insights fron nature

https://digest.bps.org.uk/2017/10/03/the-psychology-of-sex-differences-5-revealing-insights-from-our-primate-cousins/

[–]tritisan 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Don’t young female apes ride deers to practice sex?

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