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These researchers expressed surprise at the results their study found. They found the same thing that researchers have been finding for decades [Earnings Gap]

rbrockway

December 14, 2017
37 upvotes
/r/MensRights
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/2017/12/13/gender-pay-gap-perpetuated-teenage-girls-want-jobs-pay-less
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Title These researchers expressed surprise at the results their study found. They found the same thing that researchers have been finding for decades [Earnings Gap]
Author

rbrockway

Upvotes 37
Comments 17
Date December 14, 2017 2:33 PM UTC
(8 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/7jrx7y/these_researchers_expressed_surprise_at_the/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/these-researchers-expressed-surprise-at-the.909393
https://theredarchive.com/post/909393
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Comments

[–]BlueOrange22 7 points8 points9 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

It's just crazy to me how so many consider the MRM to be a fringe hate group when we know we just know the truth and want fairness for all, although that's a common rerun in history. I've never regretted a moment of being an MRA, and I never will.

Studies like these never surprise us, it's just the common knowledge we get criticized for trying to tell and accused of mansplaining for challenging the narrative we know to be wrong.

[–]desderon 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Feminism makes money for a lot of people. Lots of money, feminism is a big industry. As such, anything that threatens feminism, threatens the income of a lot of people and therefore its going to be attacked in any way possible.

Hang in there, these slander tactics only last so long. Eventually the charade comes crashing down as people check the facts. But it will take years until the feminist industry is forced to give up.

[–]hixidom 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Do you think that change will manifest first in academic perspectives or in public policy?

[–]desderon 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Public perspective forcing the academics to give up the charade. That is why it will take time.

[–]BlindGardener 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

Isn't the damn gap mostly discredited by now?

[–]Mr_MRAnarchist 6 points7 points8 points 8 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

You're thinking of "The Wage Gap". The earnings gap is very real and not at all related to sexism/ discrimination. It's called choice.

[–]BlindGardener 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

Fair enough. But I think the earnings gap, at this point, is caused by the small percentage of men who make a whole lot of money. I feel like men are in the highest, and lowest paid jobs, and the middle jobs are all women.

[–]-manatease 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It also only measured people in gainful employment, so it measures the men who moved into risky startups and earn lots of money, but not the homeless men who risked and lost everything.

[–]Mr_MRAnarchist 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

Nope... this is apex fallacy. Most men out earn most women. Sure, men are in the highest payed jobs... but women are in the lowest payed ones.. that's why the gap exists.

If what you were suggesting were true, then the very wealthy men would be counteracted by the very poor one's and women would come out on top, because most of the industrial world is run from middle income type jobs. Those jobs are the livelyhood of the west.

[–]BlindGardener 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

So why have 9 out of 11 of the direct supervisors I have had at my various jobs been women? Men don't get promoted into middle management. The men in upper management all got there before the cultural shift.

The higher in the ladder you go, the greater the percentage of men, but the very bottom of the ladder is a also all men.

But I do finance and taxes. Maybe different industries have different layouts.

[–]Mr_MRAnarchist 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

Because women (for the most part) take people facing jobs, like management because they can't do the technical jobs... and if a woman doesn't want to do a technical type job, and employers are trying to hire more women to prove how progressive they are, where do they stick them all? HR/ Middle Management/ Assistants.

I work in finance as well, and it's the same here. Almost all the people doing the work are men. Almost all the support people are women.

[–]BlindGardener 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Middle Management gets paid more than I do, and as a result I am trying over and over to break into it.

[–]Mr_MRAnarchist 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

The problem you will find, is that women don't want to promote men into manager positions, because then they have to replace them with someone to actually do the work. Also, some of these women have seen men with less experience get promoted to senior manager positions over them and don't like it. They never factor in that these guys are probably doing more work, better and not just showing up for the paycheck.

[–]BlindGardener 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Which is why I don't think I'm apex fallacing. The workers make less and are majority male. The middle management makes more and are majority female, the ranks above that go back to being majority male, but also majority over fifty.

[–]rbrockway[S] 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

That's a key problem right there. Our society consistently underpays technical people for the contributions they make to society. Wealth is created through innovation and discovery. Yes some of those support roles are important, if only because they free technical people to do what they do best, but they are less important than the innovation and discovery.

There seems to be some implicit assumption that people higher up in a corporate structure need to be paid more. I think this is breaking down somewhat under the economic realities of today.

The innovators and discoverers I'm talking about there are overwhelmingly men, as it has always been.

[–]armaadi 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Some of those comments will sap your IQ.

I'm inclined to think that the pay gap is linked to the #metoo motion, in that (mostly) men believe they are so powerful as to behave in a way that demeans women because they perceive them as weak and beneath them, that women are/should be subservient to the male species. I do realise that more women are replicating this bad behaviour, but then, there is also a mindset that women need to act 'masculine' in order to be accepted.

Yeah, ok. The vast, vast majority of powerful men don't sexually harass women. The projection in this comment is real. I don't know what's with the whole "men harass women because they perceive them as weak and beneath them" thing. Men don't go after women because they are weak. They go after women because they are attracted to them. Why do women swallow this power dynamic as a fact? They don't even get any information from men. If men walk about and spout bullshit about how they know what women are thinking at all times, women would be crapping all over those men. Seems like feminists know are experts on male behavior....

I believe that I have seen research showing that where jobs become largely taken up by women the average pay of that job drops. Teaching would appear to be an example - when teachers were more commonly male, salaries were higher relative to the average. I don't think that this is a function of girls choosing lower salaries, simply jobs which are more likely to attract women pay less. This could have two causes, employers value women less and feel they can get away with paying lower salaries or society not valuing the kind of roles described which are often in caring professions. Personally I feel women suffer from persistent and embedded discrimination. I know when I was a teacher, responsible for the education and wellbeing of my pupils, I was paid less than a Birmingham bin man who was able to claim all sorts of extra allowances, presumably because he was a man. It is not good enough to claim that different jobs are paid differently and therefore the gender pay gap does not exist. Why do different jobs pay differently?

AKA, I know no idea what supply and demand is. When women flock to a profession that is dominated by men, suddenly, there's twice as many job candidates, pay will drop. I'm pretty sure the pay would drop for those men entering that profession as well. Jobs that still have low amounts of job applicants and are in high demand, are going to pay well regardless of gender.

[–]Rockbottom503 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Loved the comments section of that article πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚

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