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Eleanor de Freitas commits suicide prior to trial for false accusation of rape. Guardian article asks how we can prevent this in the future. Misses the obvious solution: STOP FALSE ACCUSATIONS

civilsaint

July 28, 2016
75 upvotes
/r/MensRights
http://archive.is/w9FXa
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Title Eleanor de Freitas commits suicide prior to trial for false accusation of rape. Guardian article asks how we can prevent this in the future. Misses the obvious solution: STOP FALSE ACCUSATIONS
Author

civilsaint

Upvotes 75
Comments 24
Date July 28, 2016 6:50 PM UTC
(9 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/4v2bm2/eleanor_de_freitas_commits_suicide_prior_to_trial/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/eleanor-de-freitas-commits-suicide-prior-to-trial.944765
https://theredarchive.com/post/944765
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Comments

[–]JohnKimble111 17 points18 points19 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

There's a hell of a lot more to this article than most people realise.

Economou was clearly treated terribly by much of the media (particularly the BBC and Guardian) and falsely smeared as a rapist even when his innocence was clear, these are just two such examples:

http://www.thelatestnews.com/lisa-longstaff-cant-stop-lying-about-rape/ https://hequal.wordpress.com/2014/11/08/victory-bbc-backs-down-over-dishonest-rape-victim-headline/

However, the most obvious ommission from the article is the legal case that took place immeiatly before the libel trial, in which Economou was bullied by the state with bogus harassment charges simply for clearing his name and correcting the smears of those associated with his accuser. The full verdict from that case makes for very interesting reading, you can view it in full here: http://annaraccoon.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/r-v-economou.pdf

Now, back to Bindel's article and one of the key sentences from it is actually the following:

*Her father, David de Freitas, was referred by the charity Inquest to a lawyer with expertise in rape investigations and in holding the state to account.

Now, reading the verdict I posted above, we see that lawyer Bindel uses the article to praise so much is named "Harriet Wistrich" and it's strange she doest' actually name siad party really.

Perhaps it's becasue Bindel is in a lesbian relationship with Wistrich and therefore the entire article represents a massive breach of bassic journalism ethics given that she's completely failed to name her involvement/relationship with one side. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julie_Bindel

[–]mikesteane 3 points4 points5 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Falling below even The Guardian's usual low standard.

[–]Charlezard18 9 points10 points11 points 9 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Ah Julie bindel, the woman who said men should be put in concentration/re-education camps. I'm sure she's 100% objective.

[–]JebberJabber -2 points-1 points0 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

She seems to be fair in this article.

I said some silly things in my youth too. Some of them were even serious. Others were sarcastic, rhetorical, hyperbolic.

[–]mwobuddy 6 points7 points8 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Isn't it hilarious how feminists don't care about men accused falsely? Isn't it hilarious that it takes women being falsely accused before the people who control the narrative and media, feminists, say "hey wait a minute, this isn't right"? Yeah, its hilarious that men are basically social pariahs for being born with a penis.

[–]Adanu0 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Stop making excuses for people being terrible people.

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points11 points 9 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

What should be done about those few cases in which women make false allegations of rape? Should libel courts be used to determine the woman’s guilt in such cases?

Wasn't she being charged with false reporting or perverting the course of justice, not libel? It was a (private) criminal prosecution, libel is a civil matter.

So really what she is asking is...should criminal courts be used to try criminal matters? The answer is yes.

Home Office-commissioned research on rape attrition from 2005 found that around 3% of reports of rape are false

I bet China reckons all the people it executes are innocent too.

So how do we deal with alleged false reports of rape?

Notice she never answers this question anywhere in the article.

[–]civilsaint[S] 5 points6 points7 points 9 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

rape attrition from 2005 found that around 3% of reports of rape are false

But criminal courts find that just 6% are true.

That's how you play statistics with idiots.

[–]itsallsympolic 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

Got a source for that?

[–]civilsaint[S] 3 points4 points5 points 9 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

I was referring to the 6% conviction rate for rape complaints. Sure, it's ludicrous, but so is claiming that only 3% of accusations are false.

Here's a source from the UK with 7% https://www.theguardian.com/society/2013/mar/25/rape-myths-low-conviction-rate

[–]William_F0ster 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

As a side note, the top comment under that article on Helen Reece says this:

Having served on a jury in a rape trial, I can vouch for how difficult it can be: it was one person's word against another. And we were told that the suspect was facing a life sentence. Both had been drinking. And the accuser's version was factually inconsistent.

The female jurors were much harsher against the accuser than the male jurors, and refused to believe her on the key issue if she was not 100% truthful about everything. They thought she was "gaming" (still dont really know what that means....)

[–]civilsaint[S] 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

I've heard the same thing. Women are less likely to buy that the woman was a helpless victim without solid evidence. There was a quote from a former prosecutor that said she tried to eliminate women from the jury because they so often won't convict and will sway the men.

This is what rape advocates don't understand. They make excuses for women who are found to lie about parts of the story instead of emphasising the importance of telling the whole truth, just as sworn in the oath that is taken at trial. Yet juries who are responsible for deciding guilt based on a person's word alone cannot convict of that person is found to be lying.

[–]William_F0ster 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

This is what rape advocates don't understand.

I’ve also noticed that the implication whenever you hear someone spit out the (mythical) objection ‘But what was she wearing?’ etc. that it is ignorant, brutish and insensitive men making such comments.

This completely ignores what most women understand - that the norm is for men to feel they should help a woman in distress and be inclined to believe a woman making such an accusation because it prompts their protective instincts.

Women, on the other hand, are very often far less likely to believe a woman in the same circumstances quite often because they have a better idea of how women can manipulate the emotions of others.

I don’t remember where I heard about this now, but years ago a UK TV station ran a mock up video of a rape scenario to an audience of men and women.

The scenario (played by actors obviously) showed a young attractive woman out drinking in a night club when she spots a man who was meant to be a famous footballer. They drink and she has clearly drunk far too much and then he invites her to go back to his hotel room. The door closes and nothing more is seen, but the next thing, she is running out of the room crying and then cites rape (BTW this fictional story was constructed many years before the Ched Evans incident).

The programme makers had assumed in advance that the men would overwhelmingly take the man’s side, and the women the woman’s. In fact, the reverse happened where it was overwhelmingly the men who took the side of the ‘victim’ but it was the women who not only disbelieved her but many were interviewed insulting her as a silly girl who should have known better and ‘what did she think was going to happen?’. They were very, very hard on her - and this was fiction bear in mind(!)

[–]civilsaint[S] 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

In these situations, as you pointed out, men are trained to protect women, whereas women put themselves in the situation.

When adults go home with other adults after drinking, they aren't do so just to make pillow forts and eat popcorn. If an adult does go home with someone but doesn't want sex, it is on them to make it clear. The reason? It is not proper to do the reverse. While it is acceptable to say you don't want sex, you don't tell someone that you are planning sex, it is instead implied by actions.

Women are much more cautious about implying things than men. I would say they are more aware of social cues than men. Also, women in society are more subjected to feelings of guilt or shame which can make them more likely to falsely accuse someone. Women jurors know this better than men.

[–]William_F0ster 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It’s probably too late for me to make this point - merely posting on this sub will get me labelled an oppressive misogynist shitlord who wants all women to live in a 1950s style kitchen making endless ‘sammiches’ - but I do want to stress that I do actually have some sympathy with the dilemma some women have.

What I mean is, a woman can go back with a man with the idea of some physical contact up to and including sex, but at some point if it ‘feels’ wrong or he’s too aggressive or just whatever, she should reasonably be allowed to put the brakes on things and if he doesn’t …

… on the other hand, while I understand the dilemma of that situation I really don’t think throwing accusations of rape around are really helpful to anyone and least of all to the woman who finds herself in that situation in the first place.

Intensionality - by which I mean the ability to interpret accurately the signals and real meaning of another is fraught with complications not the least of which is that it goes beyond the ability of our language to resolve.

It’s why I think this notion of ‘always ask for consent’ is completely futile - because even gaining the verbal consent still won’t protect a man from a rape accusation because it can be argued that the woman was paralysed or felt too afraid to say ’no’ and so even though she verbally gave consent, she didn’t actually mean it - which takes the whole thing back to square one.

[–]itsallsympolic -1 points0 points1 point 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I see, thanks.

[–]Temperfuelmma 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

K

[–]run_mochila 5 points6 points7 points 9 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Any instances of a male committing suicide after being falsely accused of rape? Please post if you have them.

[–]JohnKimble111 9 points10 points11 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Here's an in depth article examining all such cases that made the UK media over the last 10-15 years. Note how the BBC (and Guardian) were the only outlets to refuse to report on a single one of the cases: https://hequal.wordpress.com/2015/10/09/bbc-has-never-reported-a-single-suicide-caused-by-false-rape-allegations/

[+][deleted] 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]run_mochila 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

No where does it say what could be done to stop this from happening in the future..and the nothing about the criminal false accusations. Just dropped. Cool.

[+][deleted] 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]Traiklin 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

And evidence is just the white males creation to keep minorities and women down

[–]DrTung 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

lol

After that title, I got nuthin'.

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