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Woman has consensual sex in a nightclub, gets convinced by feminists that she was actually raped. Good ending as of today.

pipNalip

January 29, 2016
40 upvotes
/r/MensRights
http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-1.678775
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Post Information
Title Woman has consensual sex in a nightclub, gets convinced by feminists that she was actually raped. Good ending as of today.
Author

pipNalip

Upvotes 40
Comments 37
Date January 29, 2016 5:10 AM UTC
(10 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/437dyk/woman_has_consensual_sex_in_a_nightclub_gets/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/woman-has-consensual-sex-in-a-nightclub-gets.957453
https://theredarchive.com/post/957453
Red Pill terms in post
feminist
Top posts by pipNalip

Italy gives no passes.

232 upvotes
January 29, 2016
/r/PussyPassDenied

Comments

[–]pipNalip[S] 15 points16 points17 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

You might be glad to know that non of the men who were involved are named or have their pictures shown in the media, and are completely acquitted of all charges as of today. However the woman said she is not done with this. Initially she didn't want to press charges and said all she did was in full consent, but she was convinced by feminists to press charges. It was all over the news in Israel a few months ago, the vast majority of the Israeli citizens were completely against her on this. I'm glad we're not full on whiteknighting as of yet.

[–]bertreapot 4 points5 points6 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

that is pretty much the norm, nowadays. any regrettable or bad sex, feminists are going to rush to call it rape. thank god there are security cameras and cell phones, it's really hard to dispute consensual sex when it is caught on film.

[–]AJaggedRedPill 5 points6 points7 points 10 years ago* (22 children) | Copy Link

Fuck, I'm confused by this place - does too much drinking mean any sex is automatically rape, even if you're responsible for initiating it, or not?

One moment, it's all about taking personal responsibility for yourself, so you don't get into a situation where you have no fucking idea who you're fucking, the next it's all about "rape culture".

So which is it?

[–]Revoran 6 points7 points8 points 10 years ago* (11 children) | Copy Link

Intoxicated people are able to consent. Having sex with a drunk person is not automatically rape. Anyone who tells you that drunk sex is automatically rape is a moron. If drunk sex is rape then I am both a rape victim and a rapist, in fact I've done both at the same time!

But the guy that Amy Schumer raped wasn't just drunk or high, he was actually passed out. She admitted the guy was falling in an out of consciousness while she had sex with him. That's rape, even if his stupid ass initiated it.

Someone who is actually unconscious and unresponsive can't consent. This is why it's not OK to have sex with people who are asleep (maybe if you've explicitly mentioned that you are OK with being woken up with sex, then it would be OK I guess).

the next it's all about "rape culture".

We don't live in an overarching "rape culture" the way feminists claim we do. There's not this pervasive rapey-ness that goes down to every interaction people have in society. But there are parts of our culture that condone rape or make it seem OK - for instance when men get raped in prison and according to many people in society it's super hilarious and they deserve it. Or when a promiscuous woman is raped and people suggest she dress better (yeah that's good advice, but there's a time and a place to give it).

[–]192873982 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Upvote for you.

But it is possible to consent to passed out sex before you passed out, if you specifically wish for it. There are people with weird fetishes out there. It's basically the same as giving you gf permission to wake you up with sex.

[–]Revoran 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah I actually just added that and then saw your comment.

[–]freehugsdan -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Personally, I think that consensual drunk sex should not be considered rape, but I honestly don't care if we consider it rape or not as long as the same rules apply to both men and women.

[–]CellularPeptideCake 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I strongly disagree, because it is pathologizing and possibly illegalizing nearly universal behavior.

[–]AJaggedRedPill -2 points-1 points0 points 10 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

So, the victim pushed the attacker on the bed, she just lay there and let him fail to fuck her, and years later she makes jokes about how upsetting it all was for her?

And she's the rapist we need to protect you from?

Here's some advice, if you think the world really works that way: Stop drinking. You're not a child, and we're not going to treat you like one.

She admitted the guy was falling in an out of consciousness while she had sex with him.

While he had sex with her.

[–]Revoran -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

While he had sex with her.

That's not the way sex works. It's not something a man does to a woman, it's something that two (or more) people do together. She was a consenting party, he was not. She could have stopped it, but she chose not to.

It's pretty simple mate.

Stop drinking.

I rarely ever drink, but frankly it's beside the point. If you're unresponsive and unconscious you can't consent.

[–]AJaggedRedPill -2 points-1 points0 points 10 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

I understand. Once you shove your hands into someone's pants and push them on the bed, they've already consented unless they call the cops.

It's just that your partners were probably screaming at themselves to get out of there while you fucked away at their warm bodies too.

And just because you had to have a few six packs to work up the courage, and then took a nap during the oral exams, doesn't mean we're going to ignore all of that when it comes to assigning blame. I wish you'd take it all to court, though.

Tell the world how those bitches raped you.

We'd never stop laughing.

How old are you, anyways?

[–]Revoran -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

I understand. Once you shove your hands into someone's pants and push them on the bed, they've already consented unless they call the cops.

Is this some sort of argument for a "yes means yes" standard of consent?

At any rate, what you are talking about (whether the guy did anything wrong) is a totally separate issue. Given what we know from her account, he was a drunk jackass but not a rapist or assaulter because she was consenting. She was perfectly sober and could have told him to leave at any time, but by her admission she wanted him to like her and so she didn't.

All my sexual encounters have been quite enthusiastic on both sides. But having unenthusiastic sex does not mean you are a rape victim, if that's what you are suggesting.

It's just that your partners were probably screaming at themselves to get out of there while you fucked away at their warm bodies too. And just because you had to have a few six packs to work up the courage, and then took a nap during the oral exams, doesn't mean we're going to ignore all of that when it comes to assigning blame. I wish you'd take it all to court, though. Tell the world how those bitches raped you. We'd never stop laughing.

What are you a 15 year old keyboard warrior? Try to show some class, please.

[–]AJaggedRedPill -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

You're accusing a passive body of active rape. I don't think you understand how the criminal justice system works, when adults are involved.

Yes means yes

So, show me where she smiled. Or grabbed him. Show me some kind of consent, besides "taking it." What's next? Maybe we can arrest a man for domestic violence because he didn't duck when his drunk girlfriend hit him with the toaster? It's just a few steps away from what we do already.

Why didn't he just leave the scene? Obviously, he was a criminal.

C'mon, sell me on sex being totally different than violence.

Try to show some class

I'm not interested in fake displays of civility. You're falsely accusing someone of rape. As far as I'm concerned, you're just as bad as any other shithead who does it.

[–]Revoran 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

So, show me where she smiled. Or grabbed him. Show me some kind of consent, besides "taking it."

Despite what crazy fringe feminists say, having bad sex does not mean you were raped. Consent need not be enthusiastic. She doesn't need to smile, grab him etc.

What's important here is that she continued to have sex with the guy knowing he was basically unconscious. If anyone was raped, it's him.

C'mon, sell me on sex being totally different than violence.

Is that a serious statement? I'm flabbergasted that you would compare two totally different situations and pretend they are alike in any way.


If we were talking about a sober guy who had a wasted girl come onto him, and then when she passed out on top of him, he kept his penis inside her - would you feel the same way?

I'm not interested in fake displays of civility. You're falsely accusing someone of rape. As far as I'm concerned, you're just as bad as any other shithead who does it.

I'm accusing someone of rape based on their own freely-given account, yes. Unless you're suggesting that her own account of what happened is false? So which is it - is she a rapist or did she lie/omit information?

[–]AJaggedRedPill 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

If he froze up? I'd say I don't want him as a soldier, but I'm not going to go psycho SJW and call him a rapist.

You have issues.

[–]redditorriot 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Kinda sympathise - half the time we're pointing out that less strict treatment should be applied, the other half we're pointing out double standards. They both have their place.

I think overall we'd much, much, much prefer saner treatment all round. While feminism in action doesn't do that, it's understandable to point out when standards are not being applied fairly, and ask that they are.

[–]Azothlike 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

Hi.

You must not know what the laws surrounding rape are. They're pretty simple. Here:

  • If they don't consent, and you know or any reasonable person should know they don't consent, it's rape.
  • If they are incapacitated, they are unable to consent, and therefore the initiator is guilty of rape. Incapacitation is a strong requirement. It requires a distinct lack of physical control and awareness of your surroundings and actions. Typically, "if they're unconscious or barely conscious, they're incapacitated".
  • If they're under a certain age, they're unable to consent. This is statutory rape. The age varies by province/etc.

These are true and consistent in virtually all first world countries. Now you know.

What Schumer did was rape(technically 'sexual assault' as she did not penetrate, but still). He was incapacitated.

What happened in the night club was not. She was not.

[–]circlhat 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

If a girl has a sip of alcohol that is rape , well at least that is what they are going for

[–]Azothlike 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Going for or not, that is not the law, and you will not be criminally convicted for it.

[–]AJaggedRedPill -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

Hi. Never play lawyer again.

  1. He initiated.

  2. She didn't do shit.

Without an actus reus or mens rea, you can go fuck your "I read about feminism once" expansion of the definition of rape.

[–]Azothlike -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago* (4 children) | Copy Link

He initiated

As soon as he was unconscious and she kept her pussy in his face, no. She became the initiator.

She didn't do shit.

Except have sex with an incapacitated person, who she knew was incapacitated, while not compelled by force or duress.

you can go fuck your "I read about feminism once" expansion of the definition of rape.

It's the literal federal definitions of the crime, upheld by case precedent; it has nothing to do with feminism's definition of rape, which usually misleadingly substitutes Intoxicated/Drunk for Incapacitated, and forgets that the lack of consent has to be known or readily apparent.

I'm sorry that you're so mad about being wrong. You'll get over it.

[–]AJaggedRedPill 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

  1. Lying down isn't forcing shit.

  2. He was a sleepy drunk with bad motor control, who could still push her on the bed, and get up and change a record.

Remind me to stay away from your stupid ass, when you're drunk.

[–]Azothlike -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

1.) She doesn't have to force an incapacitated person to have sex with her to meet the legal definition of rape. She just has to have sex with them. And she did.

2.) She literally stated that he was repeatedly falling asleep and couldn't stand up. That is textbook, precedent-set Incapacitated.

3.) If you can't stop yourself from having sex with incapacitated people, that's your problem. It's pretty easy.

[–]AJaggedRedPill 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

You've had a few too many.

If you can't stop yourself from having sex with incapacitated people, that's your problem. It's pretty easy.

Agreed. It's why your drunk ass needs to stop trying to puppy hump anyone who freezes up on you.

[–]Azothlike 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

K

[–]redditorriot 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Any non paywalled version?

[–]pipNalip[S] 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

This is the only one I could find in English unfortunately, there are links in Hebrew which I can provide.

[–]the-final-word 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Sounds like another case of "whorus regrettus"

[–]Upvote_To_The_Left 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Absolutely disgusting. Woman gets drunk and acts like a huge whore. Then goes on to blame the men.

Are you kidding me? At what point did you think "hmm, maybe it was my fault for getting so drunk and acting crazy".

You have full control of your body, and are responsible for what you CHOOSE to do. This kind of thing is absolutely obscene because it treads so closely to branding these guys rapists.

If a guy goes to a strip club and gets drunk and ends up spending a huge amount of money. Should he be able to sue the strip club for getting him drunk and "taking advantage" of him for his money? no, that would be retarded. Yet women are actually trying to rationalize this kind of thinking for their own benefit.

[–]Ovendice 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

"She said a few men had ordered a large amount of alcohol for her that night. “They poured it and I started drinking. As I drank, other men also ordered more drinks for me. I think I had between 12 and 15 drinks before I went on top of the bar,” she recalled."

Oh I see, so she isn't a responsible adult and doesn't know right from wrong and was taken 'advantage of' because women are regarded as mentally retarded toddlers legally.

In that case, women do not need to be voting or signing important documents, do not belong in positions of power or even management, nor should they be allowed to drive and especially not be allowed to drink in public.

[–]ee4m -3 points-2 points-1 points 10 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

Sounds like she was exploited.

[–]pipNalip[S] 4 points5 points6 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Various people have stated that this was not her first time doing this, just the first time it got spread so widely on video. Police investigation have concluded that she was not in a state of impaired judgement at the time, and that is the reason the charges were dropped. Given all of the information I don't see how she was exploited, just a classic case of doing something, regretting it, and then crying 'rape'.

[–]Upvote_To_The_Left 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

how?

She could have refused the drinks any time.

Exploited would make sense if she was roofied or drugged somehow.

[–]ee4m -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago* (3 children) | Copy Link

That makes no sense, roofied or drugged would be called spiked or drugged, then exploited. Its entirely possible to exploit someone, who is out of their minds, without drugging them. You sound like something feminists say exists in "rape culture".

Anyhow as someone else pointed out she does this sort of thing regularly, so I was wrong when I said she was exploited.

[–]Upvote_To_The_Left 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

What?

[–]ee4m 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I wasn't speaking, thats text, so if you want it repeated you can read it again, or ask me to clarify a specific part.

[–]Upvote_To_The_Left 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

yes.

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