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"man up" and "go make me a sandwich" - The 'sexist' words your children are no longer allowed to use at school

Imnotmrabut

October 19, 2015
41 upvotes
/r/MensRights
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/11939909/sexist-words-school-playground-report.html
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Post Information
Title "man up" and "go make me a sandwich" - The 'sexist' words your children are no longer allowed to use at school
Author

Imnotmrabut

Upvotes 41
Comments 18
Date October 19, 2015 11:40 AM UTC
(10 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/3pcbpt/man_up_and_go_make_me_a_sandwich_the_sexist_words/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/man-up-and-go-make-me-a-sandwich-the-sexist-words.969127
https://theredarchive.com/post/969127
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Comments

[–]tastelessprick 10 points11 points12 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

God forbid these kids commit thought crime.

[+]chocoboat -14 points-13 points-12 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Do you think kids or teachers should be allowed to call people a nigger, or a towelhead terrorist, or other racial slurs without ever being told to stop and that it's wrong? If racist language is wrong, so is sexist language.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points9 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Do you think that before they formed squads of girls to act as language police, sexist language was largely given a green light? Are you saying if not for draconian language policing policies, we can't otherwise discourage verbal abuse? Also, don't you think we should also help kids self confidence instead of trying to just ban words or phrases?

[–]xynomaster 10 points11 points12 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

So except for the fact that those policing this are only girls it does seem to be making an extraordinary effort to be fair to boys. Not only encouraging girls to take up traditionally boy subjects, but for boys to take up traditionally girl subjects as well. Banning phrases like "man up" in addition to ones aimed at girls.

I have to give them credit for that.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points9 points 10 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

Comments like "don't be a girl" and "go make me a sandwich" may be obnoxious but banning words and trying to police speech just seems very wrong to me.

Btw what is so bad about saying "man up"? They are banning that too?

[–]bub_rub 10 points11 points12 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Btw what is so bad about saying "man up"? They are banning that too?

"But I don't want to sign up for selective service and potentially be drafted into a war..."

"Man up, it's your duty."

"But I don't want to pay child support for a kid that I didn't want to have in the first place."

"Man up and pay that child support."

"I'm sad over this last break up and think I need to have a good cry."

"Man up, men don't cry."

Every time someone has said "man up" to me, it's been to get me to do something against my interests. It's a phrase used to reinforce gender roles that hurt men. Then again, I don't think using squads of girls to reinforce the banning of the word is the least biased way to do so.

[–]jakelove12 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

"Man up" is the always visible whip hanging on the wall, occasionally cracked when you look like you might be thinking about escape.

[–]casinodr0ne 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes it's a form of gender shaming. They are saying that the person they are talking to is not a real man.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Those are good points that hadn't occurred to me.

I still think schools would be better focusing all their efforts on giving boys and girls the best education to pursue their ambition rather than this nanny-state policing of speech.

[–]Imnotmrabut[S] 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It's gendered.

[–]hollandkt 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

How are the kids supposed to have sandwiches then?

[–]Imnotmrabut[S] 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Subway?

[–]chocoboat 4 points5 points6 points 10 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

This is a good thing. Blatantly sexist language shouldn't be any more tolerated that racist language should be. Telling boys to "man up" and calling them sisses for liking certain things, or telling girls they belong in the kitchen or saying they must be lesbian if they like sports or science... that's crappy behavior and people should be called out for it and encouraged to stop.

[–]192873982 7 points8 points9 points 10 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

I have to completely opposite opinion.

Children don't know why people are mad at them for saying such things. When they find out, it will be cool to use those terms.

Limiting freedom of speech is always a bad thing and this is the only thing I know about the USA that I am jealous about.

Racist language should be tolerated, as long as it is not an invocation of a criminal act. If I shout "kill all jews" or "kill all men", that are cases that should be illegal if there is reason to believe that anyone could follow that (which actually would hold true for some feminists with big audiences and toxic views).

If you ban racist language, racists will not disappear, but instead just talk inside their own circles. You'll create an echo chamber for racists and at the same time think you did something great... that's kind of messed up.

Racism (and any other discrimination) has always a reason to exist. It might not be a good reason, but there is always a reason. By denying conversation with them, you basically admit that they are right, or at least it can be seen that way, since you fear that racism will infect you and other people if it's open in the wild. If people really could be infected with racism, you should not ban racism, but instead change the school system such that people think critically and are not that easily convinced by stupid arguments.

Nazi Germany is btw not a good argument for infectuous racism, since people believed to be poor because of jews and French people. This was such a good argument because it actually had a core of truth, because many jews where wealthy and the French did force the draconic treaty of versailles on Germany. The French where obviously responsible for German suffering before WW2 in some way and the rich always live at the expense of the lower working class. It just happend that rich people where often jews, which made it easy for hitler to exploit the German people. The real problem was not racism or jews, but poverty. If you are starving and then some charismatic guy comes around telling you about how he will fight poverty by ignoring the treaty that made you poor and by disowning some rich people, you'd probably cheer for him too. And indeed he did end poverty in Germany quite fast which made him even more popular. We don't understand Nazis between WW1 and WW2, because we don't look at the situation they where in. What we should learn from WW2 is not to ban racism, but to never punch down on the loser of a war. Racism is a very good indicator for problems, and that is actually helpful, IF the politicians are smart enough to find out where the racism came from.

[–]rustybuckets 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Nazi Germany is btw not a good argument for infectious racism

proceeds to talk at length about nazi germany

Dude, racist language makes it easier to categorize/dehumanize specific peoples. If you make it unacceptable to use bigoted language/be a bigot--bigotry has a harder time taking root. We should be doing everything possible to make it unacceptable. Your post doesn't even argue directly against this post or your OP. Which must mean that to you, sexism isn't as bad as racism, and even racist language is not a big deal.

[–]192873982 -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I think that banning racist language makes is easier to categorize/dehumanize specific peoples. Just because you are not allowed talk about how you hate specific peoples, doesn't mean you don't hate them.

Therefore, making racist language (and other language of that kind) unacceptable to use gives them more time taking root and therefore making it easier.

We should do everything possible to defend freedom of speech, even (and especiall) for opinions we don't like.

If someone hates me for whatever reason, I'd rather know it than be oblivious about the fact.

Also I don't think sexism isn't as bad as racism, I have the opinion that we should stop using the specific terms for different forms of discrimination and instead use the word discrimination or something like that. That would remove the stupid idea that one of these is more serious than another.

Also "which must mean that you..." is often used for strawman arguments, and indeed it is one in this case.

To clarify, I don't think racism is good or anything, but it should not be inacceptable. The only inacceptable thing should be a violation of the law. I think I wrote enough about why that is the case.

Now, since our major disagreement that determines everything is the question whether banning racism will help racism or harm racism, we should talk about that if you want to continue this discussion.

[–]chocoboat 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

If you ban racist language, racists will not disappear, but instead just talk inside their own circles. You'll create an echo chamber for racists and at the same time think you did something great... that's kind of messed up.

But if you do nothing, all of society is that chamber. Everyone would be tolerant of hate speech and racism, and allow the hateful people to belittle the minority groups all day long.

Yes it's hard to eradicate racism, but doing nothing is hardly a better option.

[–]192873982 -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I disagree.

If you do nothing, people with racist views will be able to tell their opinions in public, which means they are confronted with opinions that are not racist. That's the exact opposite of an echo chamber.

Also racism does not have to be eradicated, it has it's purpose. The causes of racism must be eliminated, not racism itself. There will always be new causes for racism and other strange views, but that is no problem if it does not get out of hand. But it can only get out of hand if the causes (e.g. too much immigration) leading to a certain racism are ignored for a long time or if the causes pup up abruptly in a big way (e.g. an invasion, or the treaty of versaille).

To be honest, racism (ore more generally "excluding world views") cannot go extinct, because they are an inherent part of human nature that makes society a self-regulating mechanism.

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