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Forbes: The Gender Pay Gap Is The Result Of Being A Parent, Not Discrimination

wrez

October 7, 2015
268 upvotes
/r/MensRights
http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2015/10/01/the-gender-pay-gap-is-the-result-of-being-a-parent-not-discrimination/
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Post Information
Title Forbes: The Gender Pay Gap Is The Result Of Being A Parent, Not Discrimination
Author

wrez

Upvotes 268
Comments 32
Date October 7, 2015 5:31 PM UTC
(10 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/3nv4v3/forbes_the_gender_pay_gap_is_the_result_of_being/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/forbes-the-gender-pay-gap-is-the-result-of-being-a.969867
https://theredarchive.com/post/969867
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Comments

[–][deleted] 41 points42 points43 points 10 years ago (20 children) | Copy Link

Then they move the goalposts:

blah blah blah the real discrimination is the social pressure to be primary caregiver to the children blah blah blah

Men need to do their fair share at home blah blah blah

blah blah blah paid maternity leave blah blah blah

blah blah blah men's career don't suffer for having children blah blah blah

[–]Outdoor-Joe 25 points26 points27 points 10 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

Don't forget, men are incompetent at child rearing and housework according to most women. Women must micromanage the crap out of everything, because men can do nothing right.

Or, you know, women could STFU and let men be equal parents.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

But it's true, I set my cornflakes on fire and tried to mute my child with a TV remote.

[–]Paladin327 3 points4 points5 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

tried to mute my child with a TV remote.

if someone actually made a remote that did that, they would have so much money, that they'd be snorting $100 bills through $100 bills off a hooker's ass, and the hooker is made of $100 bills

[–]dungone 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Does it work on other people's kids and would you be allowed to use it on airplanes?

[–]masterofthehaus 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

I've never seen a feminist argue that. I've seen them argue men aren't socially encouraged to do this stuff, but not argue that men are incompetent at it

[+][deleted] 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]masterofthehaus -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Well, I really don't know what the hell you're talking about. I don't really troll around on mommy-blogs to try and find stupid shit to make fun of though.

[–]Outdoor-Joe 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

You don't have to hang around mommy blogs - you'll see it posted around here and other sites that aggregate articles about the interaction between men and women.

[–]defeasiblefee 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

What makes you think it's only women contributing to this supposed unequal parenting dynamic? You seriously don't think there are men out there who perpetuate it? Who think a woman should be doing things so he can bring home the bacon or whatever?

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points9 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

That was my thought. Taking care of children is such a freaking chore that you're willing to ignore the social pressure on men to be the earner, to cover off that missing income, and that men's relationships with their children suffer from all this?

What this author might consider a yoke, some people would consider a blessing.

[–]Revoran 5 points6 points7 points 10 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

the real discrimination is the social pressure to be primary caregiver to the children

This is a real point.

Women are under social pressure to have and care for kids.

Men are under social pressure to work and provide, and are considered incompetent parents.

That's not moving the goalposts it's just point out a real issue which people should be concerned about, rather than the false narrative about how "women get paid less".

[–][deleted] 18 points19 points20 points 10 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

I don't know how old you are or anything, but I"m 50 and have been married 15 years and always around other people with families.

Women aren't pressured into it. They insist on it. And do you know why? Because it's waay easier and more enjoyable to stay home with your kids and have someone else worry about the bills than it is to go to work every day. I know that well because I've done both.

[–]Revoran -5 points-4 points-3 points 10 years ago* (3 children) | Copy Link

I have a five year old daughter and I've done both.

Women absolutely are pressured into it the same way men are pressured into working. It's the traditional role and if you're a stay-at-home Dad or a working mother who spends no time with her kids, you get funny looks from people (especially older people). In the media, it's always the working dad and stay at home mum. Yeah some people want to stay at home and take care of kids, but the pressure from society is still there. Just like some men want to work but the pressure/expectation is still there.

being a parent is way easier than going to work every day

Depends on your job. I would say overall you are right that being a parent is easier than going to work, although it's worth noting that parent = you are on call 24/7. Of course, there are some real jobs where you are on call 24/7 too.

[–][deleted] 18 points19 points20 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

On call 24/7? Please. Unless you have a special needs kid that's the overstatement of the week!

After 5 years they're in school 6 hours a day and then they sleep 8 hours at night. You're basically on call 10 hours a day and actually taking care of them for all of about 4 of those hours.

when I was a SAHD I managed to paint the entire house by myself and still have a home cooked dinner on the table. Being a stay at home is like early retirement.

[–]Bwhitty23 -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Seriously I'm 20 so I may be coming at this from a place if no experience but I can't fathom how women say stating at home is a full time job. I understand when they're newborns to toddlers but once they're school age the work is not that hard. Cleaning? Clean a bit during the day and nothing too big should have to be cleaned. Cooking? If you're a decent cook then I don't see why this is an issue. Taking care of kids? Again past a certain age they don't require supervision. Especially from age 10 on.

Idk maybe I just don't get it but I can do all those things already and probably better than most women my age. I grew up in a house of women so I know how to cook. I had a grandma so even though I hate cleaning when I do do it it's done good. I have no intentions of having a kid.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I was a SAHD for a year and you're pretty much correct. The moms in the neighborhood had a little saying that when the kids are in school "that's me time" and usually they didn't start doing much around the house until the kids got home.

You can test this out at your local grocery store. During school hours the customers are sparse and typically seniors. Once school lets out you'll see the grocery store filling up with stay at home moms.

Ironically, they all insist on staying home so "someone can be there when the kids get home from school," but they usually when they do, the moms immediately head out the door.

It's also pretty typical in my neighborhood that even the they stay home, the dads actually cook dinner when they get home from work. I know that's how it is at my house. My wife works 30 hours a week and hasn't cooked a dinner in probably 5 years.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

And here I thought the world was finally starting to show signs of sanity....well, it's a start at least

[–]pardonmeimdrunk 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Nailed it on the head about changing the goal posts, they'll even do it mid argument

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

blah blah blah paid maternity leave blah blah blah

Which is a bit of red herring in my opinion. In Canada you have almost a year of paid maternity leave, yet you see the same wage patterns. It's that many don't want to admit that women are choosing time with their families over higher wages and advancement in a competitive job market. When you actually compare men and women with similar education, skills and years of experience the wage gap narrows to about 6%. Until there is a frank and honest discussion using real data and not hyperbole, it's not going to be possible to address this actual wage gap that exists.

[–][deleted] 19 points20 points21 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

They don't care though. They want to get paid the same regardless of their decisions.

[–]noprotein 10 points11 points12 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Equal outcome.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Aka communism

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

And we all know how well that system works! /s

[–]BaconCatBug 24 points25 points26 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Considering forbes has turned into a SJW rag recently, might want to archive this ASAP

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points10 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Really it's good practice to archive everything possible, then let users visit the original on their own

[+][deleted] 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]Awesomebox5000 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I think it would be more accurate to say that some norms don't need to be altered.

[–]dontpet 4 points5 points6 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Still not very much notice made of the income differential due to women having higher education levels. Last I heard a single American woman between 21 and 29 earns 8% more than a man.

Seems highly relevant to me but rarely seems to make it into these articles.

[–]timworstall 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

That's odd. Because the article does actually say the following:

"Currently, among women under 30 or so (it varies, the age, depending upon the average age of first childbirth and this is itself something that varies quite a bit in the US) women tend to outearn men."

[–]dontpet 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I should have read the article. Nice to see that its getting out there more.

Do you think the continuing focus on the gender pay gap in the media and in research will one day include men as one of losers? Much like there being more inclusion of men as victims of dv?

[–]aMensView 3 points4 points5 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Ah, brilliant stuff!

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