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"...she obtained a Family Court order that prevented John from having any contact with his son, although there was no suggestion of any abuse." Don't have kids, ever!

a400m

August 23, 2015

47 upvotes

/r/MensRights

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Title	"...she obtained a Family Court order that prevented John from having any contact with his son, although there was no suggestion of any abuse." Don't have kids, ever!
Author	a400m
Upvotes	47
Comments	39
Date	August 23, 2015 2:18 AM UTC (10 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/3i1cbl/she_obtained_a_family_court_order_that_prevented/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/she-obtained-a-family-court-order-that-prevented.972757 https://theredarchive.com/post/972757

Comments

[–]cajunrevenge 7 points8 points9 points 10 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[–]Manheiser_Busch 7 points8 points9 points 10 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]chavelah 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]Corn-Tortilla 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]chavelah 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]Corn-Tortilla 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago* (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]Manheiser_Busch 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Corn-Tortilla 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+]tiqr -6 points-5 points-4 points 10 years ago (41 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 10 years ago (40 children) | Copy Link

[–]RedditorJemi 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[–]chavelah -2 points-1 points0 points 10 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]RedditorJemi 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

Please don't have children until and unless you can understand that they are people, not property

I understand this 100%, and based on my knowledge of women, I also believe that men are far more qualified to treat children as people, rather than property.

and that they deserve the love and attention of both their parents.

If tradcons wanted to argue that point convincingly, they should have done so. Instead they've been busy pandering to the lowest common denominator, which in the GOP would be the religious whackos. You may feel bold thinking that the republican party has your back, but they're not arguing your case very well considering that it was a republican named Ronald Reagan who signed the first 'no fault divorce' bill. Since then things have snowballed, and marriage no longer protects children from losing parents. In fact, it accomplishes the exact opposite, by incentivizing divorce.

Deliberately creating children who do not have a mother or a father is appallingly selfish behavior.

Not in the slightest. Creating children who already know their father, but could lose him at any time is appallingly selfish behavior. I would protect children from that fate, and give them loving fathers who cannot be taken away from them.

[–]chavelah -2 points-1 points0 points 10 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]RedditorJemi 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]chavelah -2 points-1 points0 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]RedditorJemi 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Renting a womb to create a legally motherless child isn't "family life." It's a selfish man, an impoverished woman, and a trafficked infant. It's every bit as morally revolting as any other form of parental alienation, and every other form of baby-buying.

That's a tradcon argument, and you just said you're not a tradcon. Furthermore, it's nothing but moralizing bullshit. This same argument you've just made would imply that two gay men adopting a baby to raise as their own would be immoral.

It's a selfish man, an impoverished woman

Women are not impoverished by being paid money.

and a trafficked infant

A man leaving a foreign country with his own son is not 'trafficking'.

It's every bit as morally revolting as any other form of parental alienation, and every other form of baby-buying.

Can you provide a citation or an argument for this?

[–]chavelah -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Nobody should have to persuade you that rich people buying babies from poor people, or renting their wombs, is morally revolting. It's not a "tradcon" position. It's something you just realize, independent of any political framework, when you think of other people being actual human beings who matter as much as you do, rather than as objects to be used for your own gratification.

Most of the people who engage in this horrible behavior are straight couples with fertility problems, and it's no more or less bad when single folks or gay couples engage in legal child trafficking. We don't let people in developing nations (or poor folks right here in America) sell their kidneys or pieces of their livers or one of their eyes - but we will line up around the block to buy their children and/or pay them to go through a pregnancy so that we can have "our own" child. Future generations will look back on the adoption and surrogacy industries with horror.

When artifical wombs become available - well, I'm fairly disgusted by the selfishness of women who use gamete donors to create fatherless children, and I'll probably feel the same way about men who use gamete donors to create motherless children. But it would be an improvement over the current situation. It's not a loving choice to make for your child, but at least the child will be the only one being used to gratify the selfish person writing the checks.

[–]blueXcat 4 points5 points6 points 10 years ago (29 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points8 points 10 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[–]blueXcat -2 points-1 points0 points 10 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]SigmundFloyd76 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]blueXcat 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]blueXcat 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]SigmundFloyd76 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Peter_Principle_ -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (18 children) | Copy Link

[–]blueXcat 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (17 children) | Copy Link

[–]Peter_Principle_ -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (16 children) | Copy Link

Yes it's crazy.

Crazy means acting irrationally. What is irrational about gaining the most advantage over someone that means nothing to you, you no longer like, or even hate?

I would never do that kind of things even if I was able to do it.

Words are cheap. It's easy to rationalize behavior that is beneficial to yourself, or when you feel wronged and want to be vindictive. "I'd never do that to a normal guy, but my ex was really, honestly crazy. Besides, he cheated on me, so he deserves what he gets." The fact remains that a man marrying you or any other woman has zero protection if she decides to game the system - or even not game the system, since default judgments privilege women and destroy men.

Honestly, you're going to claim to be an MRA and then still encourage men to get married with the legal system of marriage geared to divorce-rape men? Shut the fuck up with that stupidity, already.

[–]blueXcat 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago* (15 children) | Copy Link

[–]Peter_Principle_ -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link

[–]blueXcat 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

[–]Peter_Principle_ -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

Get real, most women aren't assholes.

And yet, there are A LOT of women collecting child support. Maybe not all women are the type to take advantage of the system, but it does appear to be quite common.

Even if we assume this behavior is rare (which it isn't) there is no way to tell who is and who isn't "an asshole" until it's too late. That's why your recommendation is completely irresponsible.

Nor men are assholes just because I was with 3 abusive guys.

That's not the issue, doofus, but hey, nice strawman. The issue is the legal position that men find themselves in, and then find themselves reliant on the good will, either present or absent, of their SO.

You should stop reading rp.

You should stop trying to argue using silly emotional fallacies and bogshit ho-hum standard female shaming tactics.

[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points0 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Corn-Tortilla 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]chavelah -3 points-2 points-1 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Corn-Tortilla 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Peter_Principle_ -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link