Do men really feel more entitlement than women?

2015-03-20T05:33:43+00:00

Women often think that their experiences with "alpha males", those they all want to have, can be generalized to all men. Hypergamy, in other words, leads to a very distorted idea of men, because men who are widely desired know that they have access to women's bodies. They have an "entitlement" because so many women want to give it to them. Most of the women, nevertheless, feel betrayed and "used" when the alpha chooses another girl as his mate. And then another.

Women also hate when non-alpha males, those that are not desired by other women, show direct sexual desire for their bodies. Apparently they just can't help it.

The fact that men find most women attractive while women find just a small minority of men attractive is one of the major dynamics of feminism. This leads to women being dissatisfied with men in general and even misandry because nobody tells them how their sexuality works. Sadly this seems to be biological and isn't going away soon.

mikesteane · 2015-03-20T02:23:12+00:00

The article you linked to is about an absurd study which leads to the opposite conclusion from that implied.

The statement that "narcissism is shown to boost self-esteem, emotional stability and the tendency to emerge as a leader" us used to imply that, because men tend to emerge as leaders more than women, they are more narcissistic. This is beneath needing to be criticised.

The article then goes on to state: "They found the widest gap in entitlement, suggesting that men are more likely than women to exploit others and feel entitled to certain privileges."

But it does not say what these privileges are. I suggest you track down the "research" itself. It will probably only show that men are more driven to succeed than women as implied by the statement “Compared with women, men exhibit more assertiveness and desire for power,”

Men do indeed exhibit more assertiveness and desire for power than women, but not because we are more narcissistic than women. It is because our sexual market value (SMV) is primarily dependent on our jobs, income wealth and social position. Women's SMV is primarily dependent on their looks. It would be easy to show that women spend more time and money on their appearance than men. It is also easy to argue that since female SMV is dependent on looks and male SMV is dependent on achievement, it is women who feel that sex is an entitlement to be enjoyed at will (unless they have very low SMV), whereas men have to merit their SMV.

DavidByron2 · 2015-03-20T04:15:15+00:00

LOL, that's silly how could anyone think men feel entitled compared to women? Oh well I guess a woman might, ha.

First of all women genuinely do have a lot more privilege than men so even if men and women both had accurate ideas of what they could get away with the woman would feel she could get away with a lot more -- because she evidently can. Women have more legal rights than men do, women can get away with crimes that men can't, and the justice system is systematically incredibly sexist favouring women.

feminist assertion is that men feel entitled to women's bodies

The odds of a woman who rapes a man being arrested for it have to be something like ten thousand to one compared to a man raping a woman, so who do you think feels entitled there? A lot of women literally don't think it's rape if they force themselves on a man. They entirely literally think they have a right to rape men. And the cops agree.

And feminists agree to. They say that a woman who is refused sex in a marriage is being "abused" and is a battered wife, because the husband is withholding sex she has a right to.

http://divorcesupport.about.com/od/abusiverelationships/f/abuse1.htm

Some examples of ambient abuse would be withholding affection or intimacy

http://hr.umich.edu/stopabuse/resources/definitions.html

Why do you think that when advertisers on TV want to pander to women they portray men as morons and women as wonderful?

Because it works.

When L'Oreal wanted to sell shampoo to women they came up with a slogan, "because you're worth it". Think about what it means that something like that sells so well to women.

http://www.lorealparisusa.com/en/About-Loreal-Paris/Because-Youre-Worth-It.aspx

And it's not just women who expect women to be always treated better than men, it's men too. So much so that a study showed that when people treat men and women the same they are perceived as sexist against the women.

https://uwspace.uwaterloo.ca/bitstream/handle/10012/6958/Yeung_Amy.pdf?sequence=1

When What Would You Do? ran a test on stealing a bike people stopped to help the girl steal the bike! Even when she straight up admitted she was stealing it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ge7i60GuNRg&t=17

Or how about that classic moment when Hilary Clinton told everyone -- with a straight face mind you -- that women were the real victims of war?

Women have always been the primary victims of war. Women lose their husbands, their fathers, their sons in combat. Women often have to flee from the only homes they have ever known. Women are often the refugees from conflict and sometimes, more frequently in today’s warfare, victims. Women are often left with the responsibility, alone, of raising the children

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Hillary_Rodham_Clinton#White_house_years_.281993.E2.80.932000.29

Would you say that was a wee bit of entitlement there? of course all the feminists said she was wrong about that didn't they, right?

azazelcrowley · 2015-03-20T02:11:02+00:00

Men don't feel entitled to womens bodies. That's projection of female entitlement to things I think. Men get desperate for womens bodies in order to escape their third class citizenship status and join the second class, and because of the hypersexuality imposed on males by society. This is why there is sometimes outrage against women when a long chain of them reject a guy. It's not about the sex. It's about the social ramifications of the rejection. All the feminists complaint about male sexuality can be brought back to this point. It's all one massive exercise in victim blaming.

What men feel entitled to is to be treated with the base level of respect and dignity people should be treated with. By making that conditional on a mans sexual success with women, that has ramifications. By the way, it's mostly women who virgin shame in this way. So, yeh.

iainmf · 2015-03-20T02:28:55+00:00

This table (emphasis mine) from this study by Malamuth might be a place to start.

My view is that in most cases men have to earn access to women's bodies. Or at least prove themselves worthy.

If men really felt entitled to women's bodies they'd treat them like a parent with a young child. Parents don't ask to touch their children, they just do it. They just wipe off a snotty nose, or take their child's clothes on and off, without asking. They don't even think about it.

aesopstortoise · 2015-03-20T08:41:57+00:00

If, in an attempt to make a general criticism of women's attitudes to men, I were to cite Aileen Wuornos as the example of womanhood, I would rightly expect to be ridiculed. Therefore whenever a feminist uses Elliott Rodger (killer of more men than women), all we need do is laugh at them and prod them with reason.

The entitlement I feel is for people who wish to engage me in conversation to speak at least a modicum of sense.

avantvernacular · 2015-03-20T14:11:14+00:00

Men are not to blame for a bigot's inability to distinguish between desire and demand.

2015-03-20T18:16:22+00:00

The feminist assertion is that men feel entitled to women's bodies.

Ask for evidence. They'll give you the 1-in-5. Respond by pointing out that the study found the same number of made-to-penetrates as rape (figures 2.1 and 2.2) and that the two are defined identically. Then, point out that rape is not nearly that common if you use better sampling methods (check CHS's video on the 1-in-5 survey) and more standard definitions of rape. Cite the DoJ finding 1-in-166 and the FBI finding a over a million fewer rapes.

For the 30% of men would rape, copy this guy's argument. He nailed it. After that, cite this study right here which shows high levels of female sexual aggression.

They hold up people like Elliot Rodger as examples of general male psychology.

From the way you worded it, you already know the problems with this argument. I'd ask in a dead pan voice for statistics on how many Elliot Rogers there are. I'd say something that's both spot on and almost comedically dumb at the same time such as: "A year ago there was at least one Elliot Rogers, but he's dead now. Do you have evidence that there are more like him or can we accept that the problem is over now that he's gone?"

There haven't been any more big shootings. They'll talk about violence in general. Cite page 16 of this source showing that women face far less violence than men do. If they say, "Yeah but it's perpetrated by men" respond by pointing out that that's irrelevant. Nobody's ever said, "Thank god I got shot by someone of my own gender."

Yes, Elliot Rodger felt anger because he wasn't getting female attention. You can argue that he felt entitled to it. However you cannot generalize the psychology of someone who is clearly mentally ill to all other men.

"Elliot Rogers is dead now though and there isn't any substantial evidence that there are more of him. That might have been a problem at one point, but it appears to have been solved."

On the other hand, Normal women clearly display entitlement in their interactions with men. We see anger when women are not given special treatment by men.

This has actually been scientifically proven. Source. The study shows that treating women without benevolent sexism/privilege is perceived as misogyny.

Unfortunately, the only research I'm aware of suggests that men feel more entitlement than women. It appears that this is not specific to the context of male-female interaction and as it is from the University at Buffalo School of Management it is likely that is doesn't consider these sorts of interactions at all.

I haven't read this study. I suggest reading the entire thing. Look for a few common flaws: is the sample small? Are they testing for something that isn't actually entitlement? Do they ask stupid questions? What is the actual test? Are they testing a condition that's sufficient but not necessary for entitlement? What could they be leaving out? Who's doing the research, is it a known feminist making her career off the oppression olympics?

Is anyone else here aware of studies on the specific types of entitlement which are relevant to debunking the feminist assertions about men?

Google for the disposable male. Watch this video. Cite what I said about sexism. Draw the narrative of male sacrifice and disposability. Also, the wage gap can easily be seen as a sign of female privilege. Also, point out that feminism and this stuff. With all that wrong, why do we see males as privileged if not for rampant misandry and being cold hearted towards men's pain and why would men's advocacy be so rare if men felt entitled to good lives?

JimProfitLeninist · 2015-03-20T05:22:58+00:00

I don't see what's so entitled about men considering they have to work for FUCKING EVERYTHING.

Look at relationships. Women just sit there like they're waiting for a bus and get their choice In dick. I've seen 400lb sperm whales act like they can be picky about their dick.

Meanwhile I have to act like a God damn show monkey and try to be witty, articulated, charming... for what? To get ignored half of the time and the other half not go anywhere and waste my fucking time? Oh, but I'm entitled for pointing that out. I shouldn't complain. I make ten cents more an hour...oh wait, no I don't. In fact I fucking hate my job and am expected to work my ass off for that too. Just to GET a job. I'm so used to NOT being entitled I'd be content fulfilling either the job being easy, the job paying well, or the job being something I love or am good at to be praised for my skill. I get none of those out of it. I'm so fucking entitled for being frustrated and exhausted...

In fact I don't seem to get much out of life at all. But oh how reminded I have to be how entitled I am and should sympathize for poor poor women.

MRSPArchiver · 2015-03-20T01:21:01+00:00

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Title	Do men really feel more entitlement than women?
Author	ParanoidAgnostic
Upvotes	12
Comments	11
Date	March 20, 2015 1:20 AM UTC (11 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/2znhj8/do_men_really_feel_more_entitlement_than_women/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/do-men-really-feel-more-entitlement-than-women.985330 https://theredarchive.com/post/985330

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